ELK m1 Gold vs HAI - thoughts?

[Dean Roddey]

An Elk or Omni is the base of an automation system, but it's not the same as a product like CQC, which is a much higher level sort of construct. You have to remember that the Omni and Elk are very constrained systems compared to a stupidly powerful computer (even a smallish one these days.) So something like CQC an afford to provide much broader services.

It's common to layer CQC over an Elk or Omni, allowing the automation panel to handle the low level functionality and CQC to handle the higher level stuff, and all of the devices that the Elk or Omni isn't going to deal with, and stich them all together into a single system.

 

[pete_c]

Personally today I consider my HAI OPII the "controller on steroids". It would be the same with the Elk panel. Instead of just the software HA box controlling the individual pieces; you have it control the super duper one cable do all controller (with some intelligence) which would be your panel be it HAI or ELK.

Its really a next step of sorts to just utilize all an inclusive do all piece of hardware; then connect a piece of software to it which would consider it just another controller. With this then you could expand either your HW or SW in any direction giving you many choices.

Like today; base lighting schedules based sunset times can be primarily controlled via the HAI panel; and to me its something that I do not do with the software server. But that's where the software server would shine a bit; bring a different level of just turning on the lights mixing in some complex event schemas relating to other devices which would not be able to be done with the HW alone.

As Dean states about you could even stich together something that typically just the HW would never be able to accomodate; heck you could really even utilize an Elk and HAI panel in two different locations and connect them both to one piece of software giving you even more benefits and creating a "hub and spoke" control methodology.

 

[Neurorad]

Because I have plans for a separate, dedicated, whole-house 'overlord' controller, I plan on using an Elk M1. I don't want audio, video, dedicated touchscreen, or camera control from the alarm. I want rock solid burglar, fire, flood detection, and probably lighting (RadioRa2). Really, lighting and HVAC could be on either the Elk or Overlord controller. Audio and video control will be through the Overlord.

IIRC, the price of an Elk input or output expansion board, located remotely, is much cheaper than the HAI expansion board.

 

[picta]

Because I have plans for a separate, dedicated, whole-house 'overlord' controller, I plan on using an Elk M1. I don't want audio, video, dedicated touchscreen, or camera control from the alarm. I want rock solid burglar, fire, flood detection, and probably lighting (RadioRa2). Really, lighting and HVAC could be on either the Elk or Overlord controller. Audio and video control will be through the Overlord.

IIRC, the price of an Elk input or output expansion board, located remotely, is much cheaper than the HAI expansion board.

If you want to control your lights based on occupancy events I would strongly suggest using the hardware controller to do so, otherwise you'll experience visible delays in responses. Over the years I have migrated a lot of automation tasks from the "overload" controller (Homeseer in my case) to the hardware. It is great in theory to think of the overload controller as the master link, but in reality you'll get a better reliability in your automation system if you use less software links between components. I have both Elk MG and HAI controllers with the later now handling most of my system. I use ELK for pulse and analog zones, door bell and some interior doors. Lighting integration was the reason I got HAI because Elk did not support Centralite at the time, now they both do. I know from experience that the prices are comparable for both systems in a mid-size install. For example, HAI expanders come in a neat enclosure with lock and key, and a room for dedicated battery, while you get 2 circuit boards for ELK (1 for zone and 1 for outputs) and have to find a way to install them. My Omnistat2 thermostats are also connected to the controller, as I have events to control my window coverings based on the temperatures/humidity. Now I am considering moving my AV zone controller to HAI as well, primarily to speed up voice announcements. The next will be cameras, as it is annoying to wait for the door image to pop up while the motion sensor has tripped a while ago. I'll leave Homeseer to do more of the high level stuff that does not require time-sensitive response and also use it as the visual interface to both controllers (via HSTouch).

 

[Neurorad]

That's a great point about using the hardware controller for lighting - faster response times. I've always planned to use a hardware controller for this reason. Elk's recent announcement of supporting RA2 will give me the option of using the Elk. But, I plan to use a hardware controller as an 'overlord' controller. I guess you're using HS software, and not a dedicated HS box.

Both Elk and HAI offer similar lighting platform support, so it's kind of a moot point for the OP.

 

[picta]

But, I plan to use a hardware controller as an 'overlord' controller. I guess you're using HS software, and not a dedicated HS box.

Just curious which hardware overload controller you are planning on using? I run HSPro on a dedicated box, but it is a software controller, and it has all the issues associated with such. HAI and ELK are the hardware controllers, and I think they are pretty good ones for DIY.

 

[tmbrown97]

I'll just throw this in there... the OP stated he couldn't tell what was automation vs. security. I think the important fact to remember is that there is a lot of overlap between the two. For security it's a series of inputs that lets you know which doors/windows are open and triggers sirens; but with those same inputs you can tie in doorbells, flood detectors, and many other things. It's having a big hardware controller that can handle a bunch of inputs and outputs that makes it a great tie into automation as well. But, you'll reach limits - which is where another software package can take over and bridge the gap. But, the security system talks HVAC and knows if windows are open, so it's easy to do things like set back temperature until the window are closed; or turn on/off lights based on occupancy.

That said, I keep most mission-critical stuff on the M1 and keep just some rules and things I could live without on the software. For the record, my software is Elve and it's running on my HP MediaSmart home server - so it's not even an extra computer. Also, I haven't experienced the lighting delays you guys are noticing really. I recently moved one of my most popular rules from the Elk to Elve and see no perceivable delay - but by going to elve, I can now sequence a bunch of events much more gracefully (When I open my front door, the overhead light very quickly shoots to 40% to get past the LED low-dim issues; then gradually fades from there to 80% over the next 5 seconds; then following in sequence you see the lights fade on for your path all the way to the kitchen and family room, which is nearly always the destination). The Elk couldn't do that without a whole bunch of outputs wasted to track steps.

That said, 90% of the house is still run directly by the M1 because it was here first and I find some things just easier to do with it.

 

[rwarshawski]

My system has a slightly different approach. I use an ELK M1 for security. It is integrated to a hybrid HAL/Cinemar sytem. I can verbally tell the ELK what to do using HAL or use a touchpad through Main Lobby. The ELK feeds the hybrid with occupancy info, and (soon) will activate lights, t'stats etc., on its own.
The HAL/Cinemar hybrid- let's call it Sophie- it's easier to type, controls all audio via a Russound system The Russound is very capable in this regard, even having a built in tuner, etc., and can stand alone if necessary.
I can phone Sophie and disarm the ELK, have the lights on the driveway/garage/hallway activate, open the garage door, play my favourite music, send an email and text message to whoever telling them I am at home and don't bug me, etc. Sophie texts me with voicemail alerts and sends them via email. Also temperature warnings and water sensor warnings(the later supplied to Sophie from the ELK).
Can access from cell phone, ipad, tablet pc.
Use touchpad/ipad to run A/V system with TV,PVR, Bluray, digitized movies on NAS, etc.
Don't have my cameras up and running yet, but it can do that as well.
Can do this through microphones in different rooms if need be. it's kinda neat to be able to pick up the phone and say "Play the Grateful Dead in the kitchen ", or "Turn on the gas fireplace", or "Turn off all downstairs lights".
Works so well I put it in 2 different houses.
Don't have experience with HAI, but I assume it can do most of this.
Don't jump too soon into the market until you analyze your needs. I don't think I could do without the voice control, having experienced it.
These run on the same PC, middle of the road speed,etc.
Don't know exactly what HAL and Cinemar are charging these days but seems pretty close to the HAI. These run on the same PC, middle of the road speed,etc.

bob

 

[pete_c]

Funny I don't consider the lighting/HVAC being automation much anymore these days in so much as just the basics of the core system; where as my Overlord computer handles much more complex stuff I suppose.

Very basic Russound control of the hardware and muti do all autonomous multimedia media control not really under either the HAI or the Overload controller. When I look for a movie to watch in my library or song to listen to (other than say a Christmas music playlist); I prefer to just get to the title of the song or movie with no glitzy cover art or critics review of the movie type stuff.

But contrarily to what I wrote I am playing around with a "Movie wall" then lets me browse movies via a full screen like display of titles with pictures and credits type stuff. Its a bit of work though cuz you have to create and build a directory for each movie by hand; putting in cover art etc. Takes some time to do; but I guess its nice looking once you complete a movie (wall is written for Linux; although I have seen similiar for MCE stuff). Some of the programs just get dynamically changing stuff from numerous locations on the internet downloading it live and caching it into like a mysql database.

 

[Neurorad]

I obtained access to Crestron software through work. I plan to use a Crestron hardware controller. I think that as long as I push for Crestron at work, they'll support me at home too.

At least, that's the plan. I have had access to the sw for about 6 months now, and haven't downloaded it yet to play with it. I won't consider a controller purchase until I'm done with some other stuff.

I attempt to finish one project, before starting another. Not always successful, but I try.

 

[Del91574]

Crestron has plug ins for the Elk, same with AMX. Then again, same goes with HAI, but I've tended to see more AMX programmers more familiar with HAI, which I believe stems from HAI being on the market a little longer than the Elk. Both are very similar products.

 

[broconne]

You need to find a new HAI guy, as yours is well.. bad.

HAI does support Android. I run snaplink for android and it works well. I am not sure if its compatible with the kindle, but HAI doesn't only support windows and apple.

That being said, the android product lags slowly behind the apple one.