fitzpatri8
Active Member
Ah, great. We know what good engineers lawyers are. They should be able to fix it!Herdfan said:
Tom
Insteon Failures
- Thread starter Madcodger
- Start date
Tom
I can't comment on Insteon, but what brought me to UPB was the fact that my Smarthome switchlink X-10 switches were failing with increasing frequency. They were probably 2 - 3 years old, and basically they wouldn't respond locally. Sometimes the ON would fail, sometimes the OFF, you could sometimes press really hard and they'd work. About 25% were failing or failed. (And these switches were definitly not abused.)
Just installed 45 UPB switches. Had one DOA fixture module, and all other switches work perfectly.
Just installed 45 UPB switches. Had one DOA fixture module, and all other switches work perfectly.
Problem is that Joe might be having very few problems - closer to my experience.Herdfan said:
To the suit, I suspect BSR is dead-on: sadly this is closer to the way things are than to the way they should be.
I believe our dollars are our vote - perhaps our most true democracy.
We don't individually choose what the "value" of them is - how much they'll buy - but we do choose where we distribute them.
I have no intent to defend Smart Home. I'd like to see them deliver better quality products. Unfortunately, many - enough, any way - of us have "voted" to make our buying choices what they are. I don't agree with SH QC... or in the direction some of our retail outlet choices have taken us. I still have to make choices within what's available to me if I want to purchase anything.
I'd much prefer that the choices for where I put my dollars were different. I presented what I think my options are and why I chose as I did. I spent slowly: I liked the features on the initial small purchase that I was willing to overlook the quality issues. These were choices.
I don't think my choices are the right choices for others. That's for them to decide.
Bottom line: I hope SH improves.
Well, a brief update. Spent quite some time with SH tech support yesterday, and they acknowledged that there were some problems (that's an improvement, I think) and had a few practical solutions to try for one or two issues. I'm in the process of working through those now. The tech was very polite, helpful and informed (also an improvement over some past calls) and actually came out to this board while we were speaking to better understand some of our frustrations.
So, progress. The thing that tech support can't fix, of course, is the underlying quality of equipment. For those of us who had SH X10 eqiupment prior to the launch of Insteon, I think we generally agree that there are differences (which we perceive as declines) in the physical quality of the switches. That's a problem that can only be addressed by senior management, and my final comment to tech support yesterday was that I hoped those senior folks at SH would start paying attention to boards like these, where their largest potential customers (HA enthusiasts) traded information.
So, progress. The thing that tech support can't fix, of course, is the underlying quality of equipment. For those of us who had SH X10 eqiupment prior to the launch of Insteon, I think we generally agree that there are differences (which we perceive as declines) in the physical quality of the switches. That's a problem that can only be addressed by senior management, and my final comment to tech support yesterday was that I hoped those senior folks at SH would start paying attention to boards like these, where their largest potential customers (HA enthusiasts) traded information.
In the year and a half since I started in HA, things have changed quite a bit. New products are coming out every day and now with Leviton and Cooper moving into lighting control, things can only get better.gregoryx said:
I think SH has positioned themselves below the market. With the aforementioned companies coming out with switches rumored to be in the $80-120 range, why is SH 1/2 to 1/3 of that? The Icon line should be $40, not the V2's. The V2's should be below the others, but be of the same quality as the Leviton.
As soon as the Levitons are available, I will be giving them a try. I love the way Insteon works, but the failure issues and "improvements" are that are steps backwards are starting to prove too much.
I have about 40 Insteon devices. I've had to replaced most of my Switchlincs and Keypadlincs because of the load flicker issue. All of my replacement Switchlincs have the VERY bright bottom LED, buzz pretty loudly and have a very cheap-feeling paddle response/clicking action (in comparison, the paddles on my Icon switches have a much better feel to them).
I use my keypadlincs in the 8 button configuration and the middle 4 buttons are very "loose" and can be half popped off when not clicked in the center.
I have a mix of green and orange LED Icons because they decided to change LED colors post-production release.
I'm on my 4th Powerlinc firmware upgrade.
Signal reliability has been about 100% for me, so no complaints on that.
I use my keypadlincs in the 8 button configuration and the middle 4 buttons are very "loose" and can be half popped off when not clicked in the center.
I have a mix of green and orange LED Icons because they decided to change LED colors post-production release.
I'm on my 4th Powerlinc firmware upgrade.
Signal reliability has been about 100% for me, so no complaints on that.
mtwalsh367
Member
I saw a recent post on Smarthome's Insteon forum essentially blaming the quality issues on installer/customer abuse and misuse of the product. I don't know if this was a Smarthome employee or not but I don't see this as a good sign.
I am trying to keep my hopes up for the success of Insteon but deep down I feel that it won't be too much longer before the general public figures out that Smarhome does not have their act together. With a new product like this you only get one chance to make it successful, especially in todays world where customers can easily talk and share thoughts. There is no place to hide.
We can at least say that we tried hard to make this work and provide feedback to smarthome to help them be successful. Its really out of our hands now.
Keep your fingers crossed that someone is paying attention. Maybe smarthome will surprise us
I am trying to keep my hopes up for the success of Insteon but deep down I feel that it won't be too much longer before the general public figures out that Smarhome does not have their act together. With a new product like this you only get one chance to make it successful, especially in todays world where customers can easily talk and share thoughts. There is no place to hide.
We can at least say that we tried hard to make this work and provide feedback to smarthome to help them be successful. Its really out of our hands now.
Keep your fingers crossed that someone is paying attention. Maybe smarthome will surprise us
SmartLabsMike
Active Member
Please post or PM me where you saw this thread I would like to look into it. I participate in the forums to help and provide information - not argue and blame.mtwalsh367 said:
fitzpatri8
Active Member
If you are referring to my post, I 1) have not experienced hardware failures here, and 2) shared my personal observations and experience with my Insteon products. I have no financial interest in SmartHome or SmartLabs whatsoever, nor do I make my living selling automation products from any vendor.
Tom
Tom
I've only had one or two devices actually fail to the point of being unusable (out of ~30). I've replace probably a half dozen switches/keypads of flicker issues but the replacements have been fine. I do agree however that the "look and feel" of the newer switches have gone down in quality, specifically LED floodlight and rather mushy paddles. All in all I'm still pretty happy with things. As long as they keep honoring their warranty I'll continue my Insteon retrofit. I wouldn't mind, however, paying a bit more for a higher quality device. The switches purchased over a year ago (before the price cut) are definitly nicer than the latest ones I've been getting. Just a shame I had to replace several of them because of the flicker issue.
As far as the keypadlinc buttons falling off, I've had really good luck with using an EXTREMELY TINY amount of latex caulk to hold the buttons on. They seem to hold up just fine and is still easy to remove. I've purchased the custom engraged buttons on one keypad and really love the look. I'll be doing the rest of my keypads soon. They dramatically cut down the light leaking out from between the buttons and gives the keypad a real polished look.
As far as the keypadlinc buttons falling off, I've had really good luck with using an EXTREMELY TINY amount of latex caulk to hold the buttons on. They seem to hold up just fine and is still easy to remove. I've purchased the custom engraged buttons on one keypad and really love the look. I'll be doing the rest of my keypads soon. They dramatically cut down the light leaking out from between the buttons and gives the keypad a real polished look.
mtwalsh367
Member
Here is a link to the post I was referring to http://www.techmall.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=630
and here is the quote -
I've seen lots of complaints here, many about what features a device does or doesn't have (one person complains an indicator light is too bright, another that it is too dim, another that it is the color it is, another that it exists at all), and a few about device failures. Frequently, when you delve more into the failure stories, you find it was powering an oddball device that introduced a power surge, or a ground pin was cut off, or wires were crossed on installation, or something else strange. Smarthome ought to bring on a few of them as beta-testers, as they clearly have more imagination (or experience performing torture?!?) than I.
and here is the quote -
I've seen lots of complaints here, many about what features a device does or doesn't have (one person complains an indicator light is too bright, another that it is too dim, another that it is the color it is, another that it exists at all), and a few about device failures. Frequently, when you delve more into the failure stories, you find it was powering an oddball device that introduced a power surge, or a ground pin was cut off, or wires were crossed on installation, or something else strange. Smarthome ought to bring on a few of them as beta-testers, as they clearly have more imagination (or experience performing torture?!?) than I.
SmartLabsMike
Active Member
Thanks - As I suspected this was NOT a SH employee.mtwalsh367 said:
mtwalsh367
Member
Thanks Mike, We apprciate your efforts.
KenM
Active Member
Hi,
Ancient history, FYI (in case anyone missed it the first time)
and to provide some clarifying info:
I had 4 of my 4 V2 plug-in ApplianceLincs fail and 3 of my 5 plug-in V2 LampLinc modules fail within a month of purchase (Nov 05).
The ApplianceLincs had the ground pin removed. It is only wired as a pass through, I guess it might effect reliability if they were hit by lightening, it wont for normal operation.
The 'oddball' loads:
ApplianceLinc
30 Watt ballasted florescent light (killed 2, at first power up)
600 Watt resistive room heater (killed 1, after several on/off cycles)
100 Watt box fan (killed 1, after several on/off cycles)
LampLinc
two 75 Watt light bulbs (killed 3, via gradual worsening blinking to dead, I gave up after that)
I never had any of the wall stitches actually fail (other than the blinky/flashy stuff).
The same loads had previously been controlled by V1 type x10 modules.
The same loads are now being happily controlled by Z-Wave modules.
I do not post this type of stuff over in the 'techmall.com' forum as most of those folks are just trying to figure out how to set the stuff up or how it works. It is not up to me to be consumer advocate for anything. I like the 'vote with my dollars' approach.
Ken
Ancient history, FYI (in case anyone missed it the first time)
and to provide some clarifying info:
I had 4 of my 4 V2 plug-in ApplianceLincs fail and 3 of my 5 plug-in V2 LampLinc modules fail within a month of purchase (Nov 05).
The ApplianceLincs had the ground pin removed. It is only wired as a pass through, I guess it might effect reliability if they were hit by lightening, it wont for normal operation.
The 'oddball' loads:
ApplianceLinc
30 Watt ballasted florescent light (killed 2, at first power up)
600 Watt resistive room heater (killed 1, after several on/off cycles)
100 Watt box fan (killed 1, after several on/off cycles)
LampLinc
two 75 Watt light bulbs (killed 3, via gradual worsening blinking to dead, I gave up after that)
I never had any of the wall stitches actually fail (other than the blinky/flashy stuff).
The same loads had previously been controlled by V1 type x10 modules.
The same loads are now being happily controlled by Z-Wave modules.
I do not post this type of stuff over in the 'techmall.com' forum as most of those folks are just trying to figure out how to set the stuff up or how it works. It is not up to me to be consumer advocate for anything. I like the 'vote with my dollars' approach.
Ken
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