Insteon - new users' experiences - mine's been pretty good

[MikeB]

I've always received prompt and courteous service from Smarthome support. They pay for return shipping of defective devices as well, which is extremely rare in my experience.

I believe the updated tact switch was rolled out over a year ago. As for LEDs dying, I've never seen one and don't think I've ever heard of any instances of that.

 

[Digger]

I've always received prompt and courteous service from Smarthome support. They pay for return shipping of defective devices as well, which is extremely rare in my experience.

I believe the updated tact switch was rolled out over a year ago. As for LEDs dying, I've never seen one and don't think I've ever heard of any instances of that.

I have a box with about 5 or 6 at least and many are 1 or 2 years or so old and no more than 3. Some are keypads. In fact two keypads were about a year old when it happened and SH did NOT replace them since I did not buy them there.

 

[krmiller53]

I've always received prompt and courteous service from Smarthome support. They pay for return shipping of defective devices as well, which is extremely rare in my experience.

I believe the updated tact switch was rolled out over a year ago. As for LEDs dying, I've never seen one and don't think I've ever heard of any instances of that.

I keep getting suckered in to this conversation, I suspect there are well meaning folks out there that believe relating a personal horror story is 'bashing' something or other, sorry.

My 'new user experience' happened several years ago. I was tired of my poor X10 reliability. I like to program (VB, Pascal, C, C++, even assembly) and was overwhelmed by all of the things that INSTEON and I could accomplish together (according to the marketing). I was one of their biggest supporters. Even after an appliancelinc literally smoked in my living room. After two more of those died, I decided that SH was selling things that should not be sold. That was not 'early adopter' or 'cutting edge' technology. That was just plain defective engineering design work and selling defective merchandise. SH did later issue an email 'recall' of those devices (I guess the folks that had them installed by someone else never got the recall?). The irony there is that all the recall did was to cut out the parts that smoked. The devices still failed (without the smoke). This is the same company/people touting how good their products are, while denying the obvious defects.

I had also bought into the INSTEON SDK (secret handshake) club for well over $100. I spent most of all of my spare time, for a full year, creating a program to control the INSTEON PLC. I had thought I did a rather good job until, over a year ago, SH 'seemed' to abandon the PLC for undisclosed reasons. There went a full year of my time down the toilet.

I guess I could be called a little bit 'passionate' (nice word) for the way I came away from my INSTEON experience.

Keep in mind, that all of the INSTEON guys/gals keep saying "find the noise and buy a filterlinc". Those things average $25.00 a pop (and look ugly). Good luck with that, most of the newer electronic devices are INSTEON 'signal suckers' in one way or another. I would really love to see what their houses look like with all of those clumsy looking 'filterlinc' boxes plugged in everywhere.

Anyhow, I, along that line, figured out that these folks, based on my past experience, were not to be trusted too far. I am not saying that to be mean. I only say it to help prevent someone from wasting all of the time and money that I did. If the stuff works for you now good. Enjoy.

Ken Miller

edit:
added content

 

[icellama21]

I asked two professional integrators this week about their experiences with lighting controls. The short version is that switches are almost never DOA and almost never fail. Sometimes surges or lightening get them, rats eat the wires, incorrect loads burn them out, etc, but never microswitches failing after a few years. In my view there is something up when people are talking about smarthome's return/replacement policies.

 

[MikeB]

Keep in mind, that all of the INSTEON guys/gals keep saying "find the noise and buy a filterlinc". Those things average $25.00 a pop (and look ugly). Good luck with that, most of the newer electronic devices are INSTEON 'signal suckers' in one way or another. I would really love to see what their houses look like with all of those clumsy looking 'filterlinc' boxes plugged in everywhere.

I have a home full of electronic devices, including a dozen or so PCs, projector, plasma, a few LCDs, router, switches and access points, several UPSs, a closet full of home theater gear, etc. I do have a FilterLinc on my main UPS for preventitive purposes, the only other location I have a FilterLinc is in my son's bedroom where he has a bunch of gear plugged into the same receptacle as a LampLinc controlling his lamp. Without the FilterLinc, the lamp misses a command every now and then. With a FilterLinc it's bulletproof. I also found a surge strip, again plugged into the same receptacle as a LampLinc, that was causing some noise on my powerline. I simply threw it away and replaced it with another instead of spending money on a filter for it.

While FilterLincs can help with noisey electronic devices, I find in most homes they are not needed very often. But when your home does have a noisy device, it's a nice option to have available.

 

[Digger]

I asked two professional integrators this week about their experiences with lighting controls. The short version is that switches are almost never DOA and almost never fail. Sometimes surges or lightening get them, rats eat the wires, incorrect loads burn them out, etc, but never microswitches failing after a few years. In my view there is something up when people are talking about smarthome's return/replacement policies.

You say lighting controls but did you ask specifically about SH Insteon products and did you ask if they bought directly from SH and did they try and return to SH? If they bought at AO etc you know they had no problems with returns.

Maybe we should do a poll about the filters. If you use Insteon do you have filters. If you have UPB do you have filters etc etc. Same with accesspoints and repeaters etc for the different technologies. These devices can add up fast at $25 or more a pop.

It would be interesting to see how many of these devices people have to buy to get their lighting systems to work (why should you have to spend hundreds more on these things). I am guessing but I would imagine that most people with UPB and Zwave do not have filters or repeater/accesspoints (I would only count accesspoints greater than 2 unless there is a hardwired coupler then only count more than 1 accesspoint needed for RF).

 

[krmiller53]

I have a home full of electronic devices, including a dozen or so PCs, projector, plasma, a few LCDs, router, switches and access points, several UPSs, a closet full of home theater gear, etc. I do have a FilterLinc on my main UPS for preventitive purposes, the only other location I have a FilterLinc is in my son's bedroom where he has a bunch of gear plugged into the same receptacle as a LampLinc controlling his lamp. Without the FilterLinc, the lamp misses a command every now and then. With a FilterLinc it's bulletproof. I also found a surge strip, again plugged into the same receptacle as a LampLinc, that was causing some noise on my powerline. I simply threw it away and replaced it with another instead of spending money on a filter for it.

While FilterLincs can help with noisey electronic devices, I find in most homes they are not needed very often. But when your home does have a noisy device, it's a nice option to have available.

Good point, I guess we are stepping on the OP's thread, sorry. In my case, I had 100% reliable INSTEON communication UNTIL I added some under counter CFLs in my kitchen. Then reliability, for me, went south. That was just my 1950's house 2-wire experience. I just went RF after that and have been happy ever since, no filters needed.

Keep in mind, I have NO business or financial interest in any of this technology company stuff. My posts are factual (sometimes emotionally embellished, hey). I am just some poor fool that got taken once.

What the heck, you all draw your on conclusions.

Ken Miller

Edit added:
Let us see... Me being rebutted by a stated INSTEON affiliate, relating his experience of excellent INSTEON performance. Again, draw your own conclusions.

k

 

[IndyMike]

Maybe we should do a poll about the filters. If you use Insteon do you have filters. If you have UPB do you have filters etc etc. Same with accesspoints and repeaters etc for the different technologies. These devices can add up fast at $25 or more a pop.

It would be interesting to see how many of these devices people have to buy to get their lighting systems to work (why should you have to spend hundreds more on these things). I am guessing but I would imagine that most people with UPB and Zwave do not have filters or repeater/accesspoints (I would only count accesspoints greater than 2 unless there is a hardwired coupler then only count more than 1 accesspoint needed for RF).

Glad you asked Digger,

I have a 4500 sq foot home on 3 levels. We have the normal complement of PC's (6), TV's 5, A/V systems (3), and general wall warts for cell phones, routers, switches, etc. We've begun installing both dimmable and standard CFL's (roughly 35 at the moment) as our incandescents die off. Roughly 40 Insteon devices installed with one filter on a Toshiba laptop.

I've been experimenting with I2 extended messaging. During that time I learned that I didn't need any Accesspoints installed to communicate reliably throughout the house. I do have a passive X10 coupler installed at the panel. Other items of interest:
1) I quickly found that none of my existing Insteon devices repeat the I2 signals.
2) My accesspoints (Rev 1.0R) do repeat I2, but are not required for reliable communication.

The bottom line is, with only 1 I2 device installed and no repeaters or accesspoints I am able to communicate reliably throughout the house.

So why has my experience been positive when others have had so many problems? Without going house to house with an oscilloscope I don't know how to answer that. My system is far from noise free. I can show you plots of 20V P-P CFL noise (120Khz) that is riding on my system. The point is that the noise occurs at the sine peaks and doesn't affect the Insteon or X10 signals operating at the zero crossings. I would also think that my home has a normal number of signal absorbers. As I sit here looking at my PLM, it's plugged into a powerstrip along with 5-12V bricks powering routers, switches, cable, etc. Not what I would call a pristine environment.

Summarizing - If I have the normal number of noisy/signal absorbing devices, then the problem can't be the devices themselves. A person who requires an inordinate number of filters or accesspoints with the same number of filters/absorbers has other problems. Whether those problems are related to terminations, layout (heavy current devices mixed with lighting), or power delivery I can't say.

 

[TCassio]

I have just about the same setup as IndyMike, except my house is only 2700 sq ft. I do have 2 filters in place, these were install when I was using X10 and never removed them when I converted to Insteon. I do have a coupler on my dryer outlet, again leftover from X10 days. I do have 2 access points installed, haven't tried to run without them. I have near 100% reliability with my Install. I have about 40 Insteon devices, running Homeseer using the HS plugin for the PLM. I have one Icon light switch starting to fail (micro switch) it works great thru the power line. All my lights are activated by motion sensors, so we rarely use the actual switches. Most of my Insteon equipment is early vintage as I got into Insteon when it was first released.

Edited to correct sq footage.

 

[MikeB]

my house is only 27 sq ft.

You must live in NYC.

 

[krmiller53]

except my house is only 27 sq ft

I saw this once when Fry got thrown out of HQ and had to go live with Bender.

As an editorial comment; this is a tough audience.

k

 

[Digger]

Maybe we should do a poll about the filters. If you use Insteon do you have filters. If you have UPB do you have filters etc etc. Same with accesspoints and repeaters etc for the different technologies. These devices can add up fast at $25 or more a pop.

It would be interesting to see how many of these devices people have to buy to get their lighting systems to work (why should you have to spend hundreds more on these things). I am guessing but I would imagine that most people with UPB and Zwave do not have filters or repeater/accesspoints (I would only count accesspoints greater than 2 unless there is a hardwired coupler then only count more than 1 accesspoint needed for RF).

Glad you asked Digger,

I have a 4500 sq foot home on 3 levels. We have the normal complement of PC's (6), TV's 5, A/V systems (3), and general wall warts for cell phones, routers, switches, etc. We've begun installing both dimmable and standard CFL's (roughly 35 at the moment) as our incandescents die off. Roughly 40 Insteon devices installed with one filter on a Toshiba laptop.

I've been experimenting with I2 extended messaging. During that time I learned that I didn't need any Accesspoints installed to communicate reliably throughout the house. I do have a passive X10 coupler installed at the panel. Other items of interest:
1) I quickly found that none of my existing Insteon devices repeat the I2 signals.
2) My accesspoints (Rev 1.0R) do repeat I2, but are not required for reliable communication.

The bottom line is, with only 1 I2 device installed and no repeaters or accesspoints I am able to communicate reliably throughout the house.

So why has my experience been positive when others have had so many problems? Without going house to house with an oscilloscope I don't know how to answer that. My system is far from noise free. I can show you plots of 20V P-P CFL noise (120Khz) that is riding on my system. The point is that the noise occurs at the sine peaks and doesn't affect the Insteon or X10 signals operating at the zero crossings. I would also think that my home has a normal number of signal absorbers. As I sit here looking at my PLM, it's plugged into a powerstrip along with 5-12V bricks powering routers, switches, cable, etc. Not what I would call a pristine environment.

Summarizing - If I have the normal number of noisy/signal absorbing devices, then the problem can't be the devices themselves. A person who requires an inordinate number of filters or accesspoints with the same number of filters/absorbers has other problems. Whether those problems are related to terminations, layout (heavy current devices mixed with lighting), or power delivery I can't say.

Or maybe your devices are fine and the other person has defective devices?

 

[bbruck]

Today from the front...

I just called Norm at the machomestore because I needed to return a defective motion detector. And I had lost the RMA number/label. He immediately sent me another one via email - very nice guy to work with.

Then I called SH because I ordered a bunch of things two months ago - and ordered wrong. Sigh. Anyway, needed to return about $150 of merchandise. Got the RMA number (two months ago) and totally blew off doing it. (Actually didn't realize there was a 30-day return policy). Anyway. Very nice young lady indicated I was a month too late to return, but without my asking she went to her supervisor and came back and asked if I would be ok with a store credit. Of course!

So today I had two very nice experiences with two different merchants.

Also 4500 sq ft house, also lots of electronics. Bought three filter lincs originally. Used one of them on an outdoor receptacle that seems too far from an access point. Put another one when I first installed on the power strip of my main computer. Haven't even tried to use the other one anywhere.

Bought a third access point (because of that outdoor outlet) but haven't installed it yet either.

And lest folks think I'm all +++ about insteon, I've had three fried switches - which I fried myself by working with live outlet boxes; I've had 6 SLs that I bought used on ebay that had paddle problems; I've had this one new motion detector that didn't work; one Venstar communicator link that stopped working; and one lamplinc (used, ebay) that stopped working. So I would not be saying the technology is rock solid!

But I DO use it, like it, and want to be able to discuss how to use it better here on the forum.

 

[IndyMike]

Maybe we should do a poll about the filters. If you use Insteon do you have filters. If you have UPB do you have filters etc etc. Same with accesspoints and repeaters etc for the different technologies. These devices can add up fast at $25 or more a pop.

It would be interesting to see how many of these devices people have to buy to get their lighting systems to work (why should you have to spend hundreds more on these things). I am guessing but I would imagine that most people with UPB and Zwave do not have filters or repeater/accesspoints (I would only count accesspoints greater than 2 unless there is a hardwired coupler then only count more than 1 accesspoint needed for RF).

Glad you asked Digger,

I have a 4500 sq foot home on 3 levels. We have the normal complement of PC's (6), TV's 5, A/V systems (3), and general wall warts for cell phones, routers, switches, etc. We've begun installing both dimmable and standard CFL's (roughly 35 at the moment) as our incandescents die off. Roughly 40 Insteon devices installed with one filter on a Toshiba laptop.

I've been experimenting with I2 extended messaging. During that time I learned that I didn't need any Accesspoints installed to communicate reliably throughout the house. I do have a passive X10 coupler installed at the panel. Other items of interest:
1) I quickly found that none of my existing Insteon devices repeat the I2 signals.
2) My accesspoints (Rev 1.0R) do repeat I2, but are not required for reliable communication.

The bottom line is, with only 1 I2 device installed and no repeaters or accesspoints I am able to communicate reliably throughout the house.

So why has my experience been positive when others have had so many problems? Without going house to house with an oscilloscope I don't know how to answer that. My system is far from noise free. I can show you plots of 20V P-P CFL noise (120Khz) that is riding on my system. The point is that the noise occurs at the sine peaks and doesn't affect the Insteon or X10 signals operating at the zero crossings. I would also think that my home has a normal number of signal absorbers. As I sit here looking at my PLM, it's plugged into a powerstrip along with 5-12V bricks powering routers, switches, cable, etc. Not what I would call a pristine environment.

Summarizing - If I have the normal number of noisy/signal absorbing devices, then the problem can't be the devices themselves. A person who requires an inordinate number of filters or accesspoints with the same number of filters/absorbers has other problems. Whether those problems are related to terminations, layout (heavy current devices mixed with lighting), or power delivery I can't say.

Or maybe your devices are fine and the other person has defective devices?

Digger,
You are absolutely correct. But I'm afraid I'm somewhat at a loss.

Since we were discussing Acesspoints and Filters - exactly how many accesspoints/filters does it take to correct the defective device syndrome.

 

[Digger]

Maybe we should do a poll about the filters. If you use Insteon do you have filters. If you have UPB do you have filters etc etc. Same with accesspoints and repeaters etc for the different technologies. These devices can add up fast at $25 or more a pop.

It would be interesting to see how many of these devices people have to buy to get their lighting systems to work (why should you have to spend hundreds more on these things). I am guessing but I would imagine that most people with UPB and Zwave do not have filters or repeater/accesspoints (I would only count accesspoints greater than 2 unless there is a hardwired coupler then only count more than 1 accesspoint needed for RF).

Glad you asked Digger,

I have a 4500 sq foot home on 3 levels. We have the normal complement of PC's (6), TV's 5, A/V systems (3), and general wall warts for cell phones, routers, switches, etc. We've begun installing both dimmable and standard CFL's (roughly 35 at the moment) as our incandescents die off. Roughly 40 Insteon devices installed with one filter on a Toshiba laptop.

I've been experimenting with I2 extended messaging. During that time I learned that I didn't need any Accesspoints installed to communicate reliably throughout the house. I do have a passive X10 coupler installed at the panel. Other items of interest:
1) I quickly found that none of my existing Insteon devices repeat the I2 signals.
2) My accesspoints (Rev 1.0R) do repeat I2, but are not required for reliable communication.

The bottom line is, with only 1 I2 device installed and no repeaters or accesspoints I am able to communicate reliably throughout the house.

So why has my experience been positive when others have had so many problems? Without going house to house with an oscilloscope I don't know how to answer that. My system is far from noise free. I can show you plots of 20V P-P CFL noise (120Khz) that is riding on my system. The point is that the noise occurs at the sine peaks and doesn't affect the Insteon or X10 signals operating at the zero crossings. I would also think that my home has a normal number of signal absorbers. As I sit here looking at my PLM, it's plugged into a powerstrip along with 5-12V bricks powering routers, switches, cable, etc. Not what I would call a pristine environment.

Summarizing - If I have the normal number of noisy/signal absorbing devices, then the problem can't be the devices themselves. A person who requires an inordinate number of filters or accesspoints with the same number of filters/absorbers has other problems. Whether those problems are related to terminations, layout (heavy current devices mixed with lighting), or power delivery I can't say.

Or maybe your devices are fine and the other person has defective devices?

Digger,
You are absolutely correct. But I'm afraid I'm somewhat at a loss.

Since we were discussing Acesspoints and Filters - exactly how many accesspoints/filters does it take to correct the defective device syndrome.

If the other persons devices have less immunity to noise then they may need filters and or acesspoints in their setup to get the message through over the same noise your devices are immune to. Not stating a fact.