Leviton VRUSB owners: Do you have it working?

no real disagreement, but doesn't this defeat the purpose of Z-Wave?  i mean, if you're stuck with Leviton at their silly-high prices, why not go UPB, or Caseta, or RA2?
 
i want to like z-wave for the ability to be inclusive - there are a lot of neat devices that arent made by Leviton, and strapping yourself into that single manufacturer makes me think you can do better elsewhere.  yes, there are obvious financial considerations, but assume that you're starting from scratch - do you recommend this setup?
 
jkmonroe said:
but assume that you're starting from scratch - do you recommend this setup?
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Tough to say as I haven't kept up with the latest. With the drop in RadioRA2 to $120/switch (assuming thats a real #), I'd go with that in a heartbeat as I hear its a "it just works" setup.Assuming I can find someone to sell it and the programming software to me, I think its dealer-only. RadioRA was something like $225/switch 8 years ago which is why I went down this road.
 
I can't recall the issues about UPB, but 8ish years ago I thought it was in the same camp as Insteon where power line quality was a factor.  Mine were known dirty, and I didn't have the money to upgrade my wiring. zWave allowed me to do it piece-meal, going with lower end manufacturers that didn't need neutral but also weren't fabulous.
 
Then again, RadioRA2 isn't an open system, so for the 90% increase in price i'd be gaining only marginally more return. Can't definitively say. Hopefully that software works on Win 8.1 :)
 
I have a combination of Leviton, GE/Jasco, Kwikset, and RCS; UPB doesn't offer any option for deadbolts or thermostats, so it was an easy decision for me to buy into Zwave to maintain a single "system" for all of those items.
 
If you are using a VM then your reliability may vary.
 
VRUSB/RFIT is not perfect, but it will install all Leviton hardware devices. To get maximum reliability, you should enroll all light switches/wallsocket first, locks second, and controllers last.
 
Locks are a problem no matter what controller you use (just look at any Z-Wave controller forum). The problem seems to be all the handshake packets that are required and amount of time to complete a transaction.
 
Also, forget the 100ft Z-Wave range claim. If you have large house, you will need enough devices in your network for all devices to reach centrally located VRC0P+3. In my experience and for my house, this number seems to be more like 20-30 feet.
 
I am not sure exactly what's wrong with sticking with single manufacturer. Many people buy Apply only products because they all integrate well together. Further obtaining support from single source will most likely produce a better outcome.
 
If you have a larger budget (e.g., unrestricted) at $120 a switch for RA2. I have seen both Vizia+ and RA2 switches. They is very little difference in fit-n-finish. Vizia+ switches are well built.
 
I am pretty sure if you stick with Vizia+ switches/controller (minus the VRCPG) and get everything working correctly, you will be quite happy with the results.
 
I personally wouldn't use any secondary HA controller except VRC0P+3. Since CQC supports VRC0P+3 and does not frequently poll network, then network will be probably be very stable. The problem seem to begin when deployment mix/match Vizia+ devices and other devices that do not support association class (update notification). The controller cannot easily figure out which devices must be polled and which don't. Z-Wave thermostats are another type of device that has to use polling. Polling creates a load on the Z-Wave network. Higher load creates more opportunities for packet loss.
 
I would start with Vizia+ only network first and then add locks. This way you can verify properly vendor-only operation is working solidly.
 
Right, but this defeats the purpose of Z-Wave.  It is *supposed* to be compatible across multiple vendors and products, which was to be the appeal to the masses.  The Z-Wave alliance should have cracked down on this sort of shit when it started, because now we have fragmented products - some support X classes, others support Y classes of the same product type; Scene controllers are basically vendor-locked (Leviton and Cooper both have proprietary classes); and controllers can pick and choose what to listen for in an effort to further 'lock in' their products.
 
Example: The Leviton RFIT/VRUSB does not identify any products that I have appropriately except my Vizia+ and Kwikset lock.  Not Linear or Aeon Labs or Intermatic or Monoprice or CooperRF.  The Aeon Labs Z-Stick DOES identify every last one of them correctly.
 
#$%^ Z-Wave.
 
/rant  :)
 
yeah, what jason said. Plus, i have no choice but to use a VM, as I don't own a Win7 based laptop, nor do I have any desire to roll mine back to an older OS just to get one program to work.
 
Given the sunk cost of ViziaRF switches, its best for me to stick with it.  I am tempted to see if I can get my zWave door locks working with it, but I can't get it working.
 
no one likes it, but the solution might be to dump the RFIT/VRC0P combo and find a better master controller.  i can load up the Z-Stick with my devices, plug that into my server and fire up a copy of HomeSeer and have none of the problems that I am having with the VRC0P.  and FWIW, my battery powered devices all worked with the old Intermatic HA07, but don't work with the Leviton VRUSB.
 
maybe the solution is to migrate over to the ISY w/ the z-wave module.
 
btw, sunk cost shouldn't factor into rational decision making.   :nono:
 
Perhaps sunk cost is the wrong wording, it's switching cost. zWave is stable and works. To switch to radiora would require replacing a dozen functioning devices as we're keen on consistent look and feel for switches.

I'll have to look into isy, I didn't realize it was now supporting zwave. Would I need the Z-stick as master and replicate to that?
 
IVB said:
I'll have to look into isy, I didn't realize it was now supporting zwave. Would I need the Z-stick as master and replicate to that?
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i don't think so, i believe the ISY acts as its own master controller.  wuench is using it for his locks and appears to have success.
 
Probably already tried, but have you tried arranging it such that the VRC0P can be mounted up high. Since it needs to be plugged in, often it's down on the floor somewhere.
 
I think that ultimately a big problem is lack of powerful diagnostic tools for Z-Wave. We can't really do much of that since the VRC0P is a very limited interface, and mostly only exposes the class interface. But, using something lower level gets you into a world of pain because you now have to deal with all of the complexity and gotchas of being a node on the Z-Wave network and it's pretty messy.
 
Pretty much any master controller should be able to replicate to the VRC0P, so if getting units registered and whatnot is an issue, any master server that works for you should be fine. The replication mechanism is a Z-Wave thing, so any master server should be able to exchange that info with the VRC0P.
 
Homeseer has heavily thrown their eggs into the Z-Wave basket, both software and hardware, so I wouldn't be surprised if they handle it better than most.
 
Yep.  For almost the entire day today, my VRC0P has been sitting in the middle of my living room floor, with direct line of sight to my dining room table where I have been playing around with these devices.  Maybe 20' full line of sight to the battery powered guys, and 40' full line of sight to my front door lock.  Needless to say the wife has not been too pleased, but I get a pass for father's day weekend.  :)
 
I guess I don't know where the disconnect is with zwave - I always thought a master controller was just a dumb device that listens to what a device tells it, and then uses that information to know what it is (classes and what not).  But I have hooked up 3 door/window sensors, from 2 manufacturers, to my RFIT and all three say 'Unknown'.  One of those three was previously working in my CQC setup, with the v2 driver and VRC0P, but with the ancient Intermatic as a master controller - so I have an expectation that it will work.
 
Which leads me to believe that the Leviton tool is doing *something* with the information that it's given, or maybe it expects to see the Leviton proprietary class and shits the bed if it doesn't.  It does seem to explain why I can just connect those same three devices to the Z-Stick and they magically work with something like HomeSeer.  
 
Generally speaking a master controller doesn't have to know much at all about the units. It just needs to know two types a generic and a specific type. That it can find out by iterating the units in the network. And it also gets some other info when those units are added to the network. But it doesn't have to know specific what make/model the units are or anything like that, not to do the basic job of a master controller, which is to enroll units to the network or un-enroll them. That's the primary job of the master controller.
 
For basic control of unit like lights, relays, locks, etc.., that generic and specific type is typically enough. All that requires is to send out some very basic commands based on the generic/specific types.  But a master serve doesn't necessarily have to provide any actual control, if you are going to use something else to do that. All it has to do is enroll units and be able to replicate that to the thing you actual want to control them (the VRC0P in this case.)
 
At some point, Z-Wave added a class for querying make/model type info from units. But what it reports is manufacturer and product ids, not text descriptions. So, presumably, you have to have those lists of ids in your software before you could make a positive identification. Given how many there are and how little info is available about them most of the time, I wouldn't be surprised if most folks don't have any sort of exhaustive list of them. I think it's probably intended more for allowing you to be sure that a unit is of some type that you need it to be or thing sort of thing, though if you could collect enough info and keep it updated, you could identify most things out there. Leviton may not be terribly interested in doing that though. I guess Zen-Sys could provide such a list since you have to register with them to get those ids, but I'm not sure if they do. And new ones show up all the time anyway, so they'd probably have to have it available for live download in order for everyone to keep up.
 
* Actually there are three types, there's the device class and then generic and specific command classes.
 
FWIW, Leviton doesn't spend extra Engineering effort to make RFIT work with competitor products - with the exception of Locks/Thermostats. The "master controller" has many different functions. Enrollment is only one function.
 
RFIT does have a eight different diagnostics functions.
 
I have gotten a third-party wall socket to enroll. The Lutron status update patent (soon to expire I believe) makes robust Z-Wave support impossible for all Z-Wave ecosystem participants. This is not Zensys/Z-Wave fault.
 
I do agree it would be nice to have a better version of RFIT that was easier to use, officially supported Window8, and was more reliable. You should contact Leviton and ask for better support. I periodically call in to get a status update on a few of my issues. I don't know what's going on with RFIT development. This point is disappointing.
 
d.dennerline said:
have gotten a third-party wall socket to enroll.
Click to expand...
 
You mean other than Leviton right?
 
I only ask because my initial Zwave system consisted of ALL GE/Jasco devices and a Kwikset deadbolt. I then added the RCS thermostat. All enrolled via VRUSB and RFIT. It was only once I wanted Instant Status that I started switching some of those GE devices to Leviton, as well as adding additional Leviton for expansion as well.
 
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