POE security camera system?

[newalarm]

I looked at those in past, but the removable drives were pretty pricey. To be honest, it is for my home. I am DIY, but i have not yet finished my ELK install, and have a million projects, so would prefer this to not be too complicated. As much plug and play would be ideal.

And i am fine with popping open a PC and changing a drive. It can be done in less than 30 min and I don't anticipate having to do it that often.

I really want to get some cameras up and running ASAP due to some reoccurring problems in our alley.

 

[Del91574]

Ease of install and plug and play would pretty much mean a commercial embedded NVR. If you get a "pro" type device, they can already have the POE and infrastructure built in so no connection to your production network is needed unless absolutely necessary.

 

[newalarm]

I have most wires running to various locations where i had anticipated installing cameras, to my wiring closet. Just need to crimp cat plugs onto the wires. I suppose zoneminder is pretty user friendly to set up. I think the hardest part is going to select the right cameras for the various tasks. There seem to be so many options I don't know where to start looking.

 

[pete_c]

Just need to crimp cat plugs onto the wires.
 
It might be to your advantage to terminate the cat xx cable to a box with a rj-45 receptacle  or something similar rather than terminating the end of the cable.
 
ZM is easier to set up nowadays than it was when using a multiple video chip analog card. 
 
Yes it really is about positioning the cameras, types of lenses et al.  Lately one camera here is visited by a bird and bird deposits.  It is difficult to get to with a ladder (climbing to the second floor eave is a PITA).  I did try something (not safe) a couple of months ago opening a window, removing the screen and standing on a little ladder in the room and leaning out the top of window to clean the camera lens.  Pretty sure that if I fell again the window I would knock it out of the track. 
 
That has happened with a neighbours window already once.  IE: neighbour called me one afternoon asking me to help his wife.  She had been holding the window preventing it from dropping down two stories.  I grabbed a ladder and set the window back in it's tracks from the outside.  It was a PITA as it was windy that day.  One day here my ladder got blown down while I was on the roof.  I had to sit up there until I found a neighbour at home to put the ladder back up.
 
Baby steps and take your time with the camera placement. 

 

[newalarm]

So here are the views I was looking for. I could start with one or two cameras, then go from there. Can anyone suggest a line to look at? I would like to keep cameras at about 200-300$ each. I was looking at Axis a bit. Not sure what the typical life span of an outdoor camera, but if that is issue, would rather spend a bit more, and maybe get less cameras...and have them last.
 
Front porch. **
VIEW: 45-55 degree view. Would cover packages, mailbox, front door and front window. (but not people walking up to door). Could maybe add separate camera for walk up to door, or maybe a door bell camera? Don't yet have a doorbell and would like to incorporate some smart system with doorbell and video so I can see who is at front door from all anywhere in house, or smart phone.
DISTANCE: 10-35'
 
Side of house, side entrance, alley. **
VIEW: 45 degrees, up to 70. 45 degrees should cover more than enough.
DISTANCE: 20-35'
 
Rear of house, South Facing:** I ran a wire up to the soffit of the house. In retrospect, that was a little too high. I could possibly bring it down, but it could also cover a good area. problem is it is south facing. May have issues in winter months with low sun.
VIEW: 50 degrees to cover alley and portion of yard. or wider to cover more, with understanding that I loose detail.
DISTANCE: 30-60'
 
Rear of house, North Facing. **
One camera covering rear of house.
VIEW: 65 degrees.
DISTANCE: 15-25'

 

[pete_c]

I use mostly 2.8mm outside.  Cameras in the $200-$300 range are better today than a few years ago.  You cannot though predict longevity until you try it with these cameras.  Higher end > $300 of long established companies are typically better made.
 
The older cheaper cameras / housings would weather / rust (screws) after maybe 2 years or so.
 
I utilize analog motion sensors for triggers and while I do have video analytics (it is only so so for outside stuff for me).
 
I am doing 24/7 streaming but only saving triggered events. 
 
Now too via a python / perl / bash script do a compilation of events and transcoding to MP4 baby files.
 
Here have a few outdoor Optex combo cameras up now around 13 years.  They are very modular and I have upgrading some of the insides of them and noted that there was no wear and tear on the plastic pieces (from the outside weather).  It used to be that the cameras were protected in housing / heaters a few years ago such that it is different today (well not always).
 
I did once have an issue relating to support where as the support folks only would support Microsoft products and didn't want to support Linux (software or firmware stuff).  That said there isn't much to support relating to firmware on commercial systems. 
 
Over the years have played / upgraded cams more than switching or trying NVR's and or Software.
 
As Del mentions above a commercial (for industry) NVR in firmware as an all in one device is robustly made and never really fails.  Here my ZM box (es) have had some hardware fails over the years (power supply, fans et al); more so with the old analog capture cards which were power suckers; not seeing that as much now with just using IP (using an Axis server (s) for old stuff today)
 
Here is a chart to help some. 
 

 

[RAL]

  One day here my ladder got blown down while I was on the roof.  I had to sit up there until I found a neighbour at home to put the ladder back up.

 
Experiences like this taught me to always take a phone with me anytime I go on the roof or into the attic.   You never know when you might get stuck!

 

[pete_c]

Yup the cell phone saved me.  Ladder was a heavy fiberglass ladder which had to be extended back up to the roof pulling on a rope. 

 

[newalarm]

Little inconveniences that can turn horribly wrong. Kind of like those stories of people blindly following GPS who take them through the desert, then they run out of gas, out of cell range. It is good to take time and be careful.

 

[Del91574]

So here are the views I was looking for. I could start with one or two cameras, then go from there. Can anyone suggest a line to look at? I would like to keep cameras at about 200-300$ each. I was looking at Axis a bit. Not sure what the typical life span of an outdoor camera, but if that is issue, would rather spend a bit more, and maybe get less cameras...and have them last.
 
Front porch. **
VIEW: 45-55 degree view. Would cover packages, mailbox, front door and front window. (but not people walking up to door). Could maybe add separate camera for walk up to door, or maybe a door bell camera? Don't yet have a doorbell and would like to incorporate some smart system with doorbell and video so I can see who is at front door from all anywhere in house, or smart phone.
DISTANCE: 10-35'
 
Side of house, side entrance, alley. **
VIEW: 45 degrees, up to 70. 45 degrees should cover more than enough.
DISTANCE: 20-35'
 
Rear of house, South Facing:** I ran a wire up to the soffit of the house. In retrospect, that was a little too high. I could possibly bring it down, but it could also cover a good area. problem is it is south facing. May have issues in winter months with low sun.
VIEW: 50 degrees to cover alley and portion of yard. or wider to cover more, with understanding that I loose detail.
DISTANCE: 30-60'
 
Rear of house, North Facing. **
One camera covering rear of house.
VIEW: 65 degrees.
DISTANCE: 15-25'

The typical FOV of most varifocals 2.8MM or so would be about 60 degrees.
 
In the case of outdoor cameras, (or most cameras) it's generally a get what you pay for thing. To put it in perspective, I work on an enterprise site with somewhere around 1200 cameras at the moment. The majority are IP and not encoded analog. The majority are Axis or Sony Ipela's. We're somewhere north of 600-800 Axis cameras alone. Failure rate 8 years after the fact are around a percent a year, if that. No Sony cams in the last 3-4 years have failed.

 

[ddennerline]

I also need to install a camera that covers a large (150x100) backyard. Is there a camera that would work well at this distance? I was considering a 4MP HikVision DS-2CD2642FWD (http://overseas.hikvision.com/us/Products_1_10534_i7722.html).
 
What is motorized varifocal lense? Does this mean I can zoom in supported software similar to PTZ, but without full rotation.
 
Would a PTZ camera be a better solution. Can PTZ camera automatically zoom an area when a person walks into a specific zone?
 
I purchased a HikVision 2032 camera that I never installed, but I tested it out for few days inside. The 2032 did a great job for <$180. This is why I was leaning towards another HikVision camera.

 

[RAL]

A motorized varifocal lens lets you zoom the image in and out, without moving the position of the camera.  So just the Z function of a PTZ camera.
 
When you change the focal length, that also changes the field of view.  So if you want to see the entire backyard, you won't see much detail on objects that are far away.  When you zoom in, you'll see more detail, but you won't be able to see the whole yard.  And you will only be able to zoom in on the area that is at the center of the image. 
 
This web page has some examples of how focal length affects the field of view and image detail at several distances.

 

[newalarm]

Been looking at the switches. Since i have a decent gigabit switch, i was thinking of just picking up an 8port injector
 
https://www.amazon.com/WS-POE-8-48v60w-Passive-Ethernet-Injector-Cameras/dp/B0086SQDMM/ref=sr_1_6?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1465993446&sr=1-6&keywords=poe+injector
 
But from what I read, it seams like a good idea to separate the home network/pc and the security in order to prevent bogging down the home network. So using an injector with the home switch could be a problem. Though I do have another gigabyte switch that I recapped. I think I just need to replace the fan that has failing bearings.
 
Or I could just pick up an 8 port POE switch.
 
https://www.amazon.com/SYSTEMS-8-Port-Gigabit-Desktop-SG110D08HPNA/dp/B00V8IZ5X0/ref=sr_1_19?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1465994989&sr=1-19&keywords=poe+switch
 
Here are a few questions I have:
 
1. POE+ seems unnecessary since most cameras are in the 4-7watt range. I don't see what would require POE+ (more watt per camera) in the future, unless i started to need other POE devices that are more power hungry.
 
2. If I get a POE only switch, can I plug the NVR PC into a POE switch? (seems like dumb question but could not find that anywhere).

3. Seems like most cameras are 10/100. So a gigabyte switch would be overkill. Or is it better to plan ahead?

 

[newalarm]

And while I am at it...
 
Can I somehow tie to this system a door bell camera with monitors at various locations in the house? Does ZM have that capability?

 

[pete_c]

Here utilize Tyco large and small POE midstream POE injectors.  And have tested a few mini cheapo POE switches.
 
Have a look here:
 
Best switches for IP Cameras
 
For a doorbell you can go with a number of off the shelf which connect to the cloud today or roll your own (DIY it).
 
ZM will work with any IP or analogue camera.