If you implement the HLC method of unit and link allocation, then yes those apps work just fine and status tracking is 100%. You can then extend and enhance the HLC allocations with your own custom links and actions. Doing it this way is not the same as setting the lights to UPB mode.
Which UPB switch do you recommend?
- Thread starter Mr Spock
- Start date
If you implement the HLC method of unit and link allocation, then yes those apps work just fine and status tracking is 100%. You can then extend and enhance the HLC allocations with your own custom links and actions. Doing it this way is not the same as setting the lights to UPB mode.
hmmm... interesting... I don't want to hi-jack this thread as I already did quite a swirl on it...
but quickly does that mean that I could manage MORE rooms and the quantity of load in them ?
Meaning that at this time with HAI, you get 31 rooms with 7 loads (+room 32 with 1 load). I could rearange more than rooms that for example have only have 2 or 3 circuits thus giving me more than 31 rooms ? The HAI way, you lose a lot of units when circuit are not needed in rooms.
If you happend to know if there is a thread about that, I'd like to read on this subject. If you are saying that HAI apps will be able to track rooms and device status, that is really interesting...
I understand pretty much how the HAI system work when I examine it in upstart. I just never thought I could rearange everything and it would still track correctly in the Omni Pro II...
Alezis - No, you can't get additional rooms, that part is hard coded into the Omni logic.
Start with this thread : http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/16596-omni-pro-upb-status-tracking/#entry140702
In that thread, I reference this HAI KB doc: http://kb.homeauto.com/default.asp?id=637 . There is a collection of PDF's at this link that fully explain the HLC implementation. Utilizing this, you can manually implement HLC via UPStart and get full status tracking.
Start with this thread : http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/16596-omni-pro-upb-status-tracking/#entry140702
In that thread, I reference this HAI KB doc: http://kb.homeauto.com/default.asp?id=637 . There is a collection of PDF's at this link that fully explain the HLC implementation. Utilizing this, you can manually implement HLC via UPStart and get full status tracking.
Desert_AIP
Senior Member
The CR6 s work fine even with a single 10W bulb on a circuit.
When using low voltage 24VDC transformers with my LED under cabinet lights the dimming curve is truncated. 30 to 35 being max output.
But any Triac dimmer will likely have the same curve because of the clipping of the wave form and the RMS voltage passed through.
So, if I understand this correctly, non HLC devices CANNOT be programmed by the omni controller and REQUIRES upstart ? I though you could also put those devices in programming mode and let the omni do it's standard programming procedure...
If the preceeding is true, I understand why you need to use upstart for SA products with omni. If NOT continue reading...
I'm sorry to ask this again then but I don't understand the benefit of using upstart IF you want the Omni to keep track of everything on your network... why use upstart then ? Simply use the omni to program your network, then use upstart to tweak it. In my opinion, it is way less complicated to leave the programming being done by the omni IF you have one on your network and IF you want to keep track of the status of your devices.
I understand that you could setup a link for "all interior off" for example. But when you fire that link, no device will report to the omni controller so all feedbacks will reflect the preceeding status prior that event.
Thanks for the links, I'll take a look at them see what is going on there...
I see others are confused by the Gen 123 debate as well. Most of my switches are Gen I Simply Automated. They only sell Gen I and even have a statement on their web page that Gen II is smoke and mirrors. That definitly is NOT true, because Gen 2 UPB switches support a multicast mode that Gen 1 switches do not. I have a few Gen 2 switches, and have a Gen 2 PC interface.
So even with 3 Simply Automated powerline couplers, my signal level across phases isn't great, so I purchased a PCS split-phase repeater. It was both great and horrible at the same time. Because I had many Gen 1 switches, with the repeater, I could no longer communicate with these switches, and UPStart couldn't see many of them. I actually had better luck by removing the repeater and just using the couplers.
If Gen 2 isn't bad enough, now HAI has, or claims to have, Gen 3, but can't really explain what set Gen 3 apart from Gen 2. And is Simply Automated even still in business? Their last press release is dated 2008.
I think we are suffering from too many technologies and too few customers for each.
So even with 3 Simply Automated powerline couplers, my signal level across phases isn't great, so I purchased a PCS split-phase repeater. It was both great and horrible at the same time. Because I had many Gen 1 switches, with the repeater, I could no longer communicate with these switches, and UPStart couldn't see many of them. I actually had better luck by removing the repeater and just using the couplers.
If Gen 2 isn't bad enough, now HAI has, or claims to have, Gen 3, but can't really explain what set Gen 3 apart from Gen 2. And is Simply Automated even still in business? Their last press release is dated 2008.
I think we are suffering from too many technologies and too few customers for each.
fcwilt
Active Member
Unless something has changed since I last did an HAI install the HAI controller with only recognize HAI UPB devices with regards to programming them. Once programmed (via UPStart) in accordance with the HAI HLC scheme (which I really dislike) the HAI controller will work with non-HAI UPB devices.
I'm pretty sure that you can program some non-HAI devices via HLC from the HAI console now. I believe this was in a firmware update last year. I did my setup long before they supported non-HAI switches, so all of mine was done via UPStart. Personally, there are so many configuration options available via UPStart, I think any self-installer or tinkerer should learn to use it for enhanced system functionality.
I use HLC and I use Upstart to do more advanced programming on each load control. HLC is ok, but it only does about 1/2 of what I need. I have probably a dozen custom "links" for special situations. And yes, you have to to use Get-Status to resynch the HAI panel because it doesn't understand what the links are doing.
Example: 30 minutes before I wake up, my bedroom lights all start at zero, and ramp up to 100% over 30 minutes. When I wake up, it is bright and refreshing, but not "suddenly on and blinding".
With HLC, it sends a command to one load, waits, sends a command to the next load, waits.... and so on.
This is completely unacceptable to me, and unusable if you have a lot of loads. You could do an ALL-ON in a burg alarm, and wait minutes for all the lights to finally turn on.
I have a link for ALL-ON that REALLY turns ALL-ON, immediately.
There are lots of reasons for using Upstart to make a polished installation...
If someone in my house sent an ALL-OFF, it turns off most lights, but if the porch light is scheduled to be on, it stays on. If it is daytime, then the porch lights turn off too... There is no simple on/off, at least in my house...
I hear you Sir 100% on this and I respect the fact that you find some of the HLC unactepable. The following is not to bash you around... they are just my ideas and ways of programming.
That is EXCACTLY why I did ask the gentleman if he was using a smartphone or a tablet on his system. If he does program extra things like you did, like you said, the omni will get out of sync with the devices you've programmed extra links when you activate/deactivate those links.
You can do EVERYTHING that you stated in your examples with HLC programming. Never I have been in a position where I could not do a programming lighting routine with the omni programming. I garanty you that BUT yes you are right, if you send "Interior OFF" where multiple zones are affected, each room will turn off one after the other ones but the omni will always keep track. I can do the exact same thing for your "Good Morning" scene you do in your master bed room in omni programming.
When I go to bed, I hit my night table scene switch button "D" and all my interior light turn off, one room at a time and my bedroom get turn off at the end of the sequence on purpose so when I hit "D", I have 15 seconds to pull out my glases, tuck myself in the bed under the sheets and when I am all set, my room finally turn off... This is my opinion again but what is the problem when everybody is in bed that each room are turned off sequencially instead of one shot !
When I hit my night table scene switch "C" is to turn on lights really low in my bedroom, then the hallway really low and finally the bathroom really low. I never have the time to get in the bathroom or the hallway without lighiting eventhough the procedure turn those rooms one after the other.
My omni controller is able to wake me up at the time and date/day I want, for the duration I want, turn on lighting really gentle like you do...
If you keep this in mind and you accept the fact that the system works by doing an action and request the status to be on sync, what is the problem ? All my clients have never complaint about it and they understand that they bought an 89$ dimmer. If they want super fancy lighting that react instantly where I can make unlimited presets and load grouping, make the whole house flash and resume to the previous state prior flashing and have learned the previous 2 weeks light events to replay when they are on vacation, I sell Crestron lighting at 4X the price a dimmer.
When you/my customer pick your/their tablets or smartphones or you/they use a console or a omni touch screen, everything is correctly displayed.
What is the benifit of having extra links and then make the omni seek out the status of the devices to resync everything ? When you query the devices, the UPB network becomes as busy as if you did the procedure in the omni programming at first.
What I find unaceptable on my side is when I pick my smartphone and all my lighting have messed up status and then I CANNOT use logic in the omni controller based on the status of a room or a particular UPB device... yeah... that's unaceptable for me...
If you do not care about status of the system for doing logic or have your smart devices out of sync, forget what I just wrote before. You've done this perfectly on your side.
Instead of selling upstart programming, sell omni programming. You can do so much... everything with it.
Regards,
Claude
tmbrown97
Senior Member
Everyone is entitled to their own way of doing things. I think it would annoy me as well to see the lights go off one room at a time; instead, my "downstair off" and "whole house off" scenes actually produce a pretty cool effect as the outer edges of the house dim off faster than the middle and stairway.
Chances are, if you asked your customers or gave them the option of having their lights change more fluidly, they'd take the option; but if you present it as an option that costs 4x as much, they choose to settle for what they can get. People here know more about what their systems are capable of.
Chances are, if you asked your customers or gave them the option of having their lights change more fluidly, they'd take the option; but if you present it as an option that costs 4x as much, they choose to settle for what they can get. People here know more about what their systems are capable of.
I understand you sir and I respect your opinion and what you are saying.
Again my problem is the lost of status on the omni console, touch screen and smart devices. Also it prevent me doing logic based on room or load status.
It seems to me that doing programming with upstart AND an omni controller defeat the purpose of the controller. I understand that you can do fantastic things like your doing with upstart that might resemble to a more high-end system.
Thanks for the exchange and sharing your point of view...
Claude
I think you are misunderstanding the way the status tracking works with the Omni controllers. We do not lose any of the status tracking capabilities.
By using UPStart we are not giving up anything - we are gaining much better control.
(Edited to clarify links across rooms need Omni code to update).
tmbrown97
Senior Member
Not to call you out, but that actually goes against everything I know about UPB. In fact, it's stated that the reason UPB does a lousy job of tracking status is that when a link is activated, it can affect anywhere from 1 to 256 devices - and the switch receiving the link has no idea how many others received the same link; so it does NOT send its status because that could create a network flood if too many tried to do that at once.
