Wife wants security in new home...I agree!

[lewisjd]

So the wife and I are building a new home. Nothing spectacular. It's a modest 1400sqft ranch with about 1000sqft in the basement finished. We opted for the walkout lot, and she wants me to wire in for security when I do my networking, etc because we have a 2 yr old and a 2 wk old to look out for.

There isn't much in terms of outside access. There are 10 points of entry, 5 doors (two sliders) and 5 windows pretty much. The window sensors will be grouped in each room at the panel probably.

I'm going to install the largest panel (two, actually) that I can get my hands on for future expansion needs. one for security, one for network/audio/video. My network is going to be pretty basic, several cat5e drops to each room along with RG6. wiring for theater in the basement. I'm probably going to run 1 cat5 to each sensor location plus 22/4 station wire. 18/4 fire wire to each smokes. 18/4 +cat5 to each keypad location.

If the smokes are interconnected to eachother, what's the best way to signal the elk of an alarm? I'm new to security and have been reading, but the decision to build a new home came in short notice so i've been trying to cram!

Also, where is a good place to find deals on firewire/station wire? I'm going monoprice.com for the cat5, they have great prices.

Here's my list so far:

Elk-M1GKS
Elk-M1KP2 x 3 (one in master bed, one in mudroom, one @ front door)
Elk-M1XEP
Elk-M1XSP
ELK-M1DBH

Basement:
2 window sensors
1 sliding glass door sensor

main floor:
4 door sensors
4 window sensors (3 bedrooms, great room)

my panel is going in an unfinished storage location in the basement with the geothermal hardware and electric water heater. i will do water sensors there and to the mudroom/laundry room.

in the kitchen im going to run cat5 to the corners for PIR in the future, and one in the hallway. what else? i'm also running a couple cat5 to each exterior door for video later on.

what have i missed?

thanks!!

 

[IVB]

MF'er! Typed out this really long response, and windows freaked on me and shut down my session!

long story short:

1) wire interior doors, for both security & HA purposes.
2) wire for Elk speakers for announcements/etc
3) homerun the smokes, don't daisy chain. In event of fire, you don't want to guess where it is, you want to find the best path to get to kids then get out of house
4) temp sensors in the rooms

oy, can't remember what else i typed in.

 

[sic0048]

If you are building, most current code requires 110v interconnected smokes - one per bedroom and 1 additional per floor. I know GE makes smokes that fit this requirement and they also make a model with a set of relay outputs. So you can hook the relay up to a zone on the alarm panel (Normally open). When the smokes go off, the relay will close and the alarm panel will see that and be able to repond appropriately.

Are the windows double hung? If so, you definitely want to wire both window sections. That way if either window section is opended, the alarm will sound. Too often people just wire the bottom window and leave the top unsecured. Since you'll be building and will have access, make sure it is done right.

I would install galss breaks as well. The idea is that while the house is armed in stay mode, the motion detectors are turned off. If someone breaks the glass in a window and climbs in without opening it, the alarm would not sound. Having the glass breaks is just one more layer of security. Each layer thay you add will make your system more effective. Glass breaks use the same 22/4 wire that PIRs use.

Not sure if the house will have a garage, but don't forget about it. Most people want to have a sensor on their garage door to know if it is open. That can be helpful even if you don't have the alarm set to go off if it opens.

You might want a heat detector in the kitchen (and garage if you will have one). They work better in those areas because they are immune to smoke and dust. So burning a piece of toast won't set the alarm off.

What about a CO2 detector? You'll probably want one - especially if you have a fireplace or use gas appliances.

You might want to include an Elk-930 doorbell detector. You can hook it up to a standard doorbell and the alarm will know when someone presses the doorbell button. You can do some automation related things with that. (Perhaps you annouce "Front Door Bell Ringing" in the garage and/or basement where you cannot normally hear the doorbell, etc).

Just a few random thoughts.

 

[mustangcoupe]

consider the top and bottom sashes when wiring the windows.


Glass Break detectors
CO2 detector near the heater
any Garage? consider protecting that too and automating the closing of the door

edit: dam Brian you got in there while I was reading the 1st post

 

[claymahaffey]

I know you said 'security', but we've learned long ago that 'security' term can be stretched pretty far. So if I was building a house and had lots of cheap Cat5 available I'd run a drop to every light switch location (just don't terminate it inside the box..) for future hardwired lighting automation. I'd also run another drop of Cat5 to each switch for audio control and either run speaker wires from there to a couple of locations in each room or homerun speaker wires from each room to a central location.

Just saying, 'cause once you get started...

 

[lewisjd]

I know you said 'security', but we've learned long ago that 'security' term can be stretched pretty far. So if I was building a house and had lots of cheap Cat5 available I'd run a drop to every light switch location (just don't terminate it inside the box..) for future hardwired lighting automation. I'd also run another drop of Cat5 to each switch for audio control and either run speaker wires from there to a couple of locations in each room or homerun speaker wires from each room to a central location.

Just saying, 'cause once you get started...

i'm definately running a cat5 loop to each switch. i dont think we'll ever do whole house audio just because the house isnt gigantic. i may run cat5 for an audio control and at least some speaker wire in each room with a loop. its basically one big room (kitchen/dining/living) with a hallway that houses the 3 bedrooms so any music can/will be heard form anywhere. plus neither my wife nor i are big music listeners when we are home.

heres an old plan. we added 3rd car garage, moved laundry to mudroom. the basement will have a wet bar, 1 large family/theater room and a large bedroom/bathroom.

 

[sic0048]

Don't forget to put a sensor in the garage attic access as well. You don't want people getting into the attic without you knowing about it.

 

[IVB]

How about external cameras, at least front door/back door ones? You'd need 18/2 + RG6 (or a cat5) for that.

BTW, with a 2 year old & 2 week old, you may want to consider distributed video. Although with cat5 to every location, that could be as simple as using SageTV extenders.

Although in my house, the kids have preferred the 50" Home Theater versus the smaller MBR TV even when they were 2 & 4; i guess even Dora/Diego/Clifford/Wiggles looks & sounds better on the bigscreen.

 

[Steve]

I'm probably going to run 1 cat5 to each sensor location plus 22/4 station wire. 18/4 fire wire to each smokes. 18/4 +cat5 to each keypad location.

If I'm reading this right...

Why are you running a Cat5 AND 22/4 to each sensor? While I am an advocate of put as much wire in the wall as possible, that just seems like a waste. First, I think Cat5 is too big and inappropriate for standard window/door sensors. They just need /2 so if you run 22/4 you already have a spare pair (you will use all 4 wires for a pir or gb). So personally I would not run Cat5 to sensor locations, just 22/2 and/or 22/4.

 

[IVB]

I think Cat5 is too big and inappropriate for standard window/door sensors. They just need /2 so if you run 22/4 you already have a spare pair (you will use all 4 wires for a pir or gb). So personally I would not run Cat5 to sensor locations, just 22/2 and/or 22/4.

My personal difficulty with that is in wire purchasing. Trying to guesstimate how much 22/4 versus cat5 I needed was a losing game. Esp given that I started off thinking i'd have 25-40 runs, and the total (whenever I actually finish, that is) will be closer to 150 runs.

I ended up switching over to cat5e in its entirety. Well, except for the fire-rated 22/4 for smoke detectors.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I have found the 24 gauge wire in Cat5e is a lot harder to terminate into screw terminals and I have to agree with Steve on this one.

 

[CORT]

If you are building, most current code requires 110v interconnected smokes - one per bedroom and 1 additional per floor. I know GE makes smokes that fit this requirement and they also make a model with a set of relay outputs. So you can hook the relay up to a zone on the alarm panel (Normally open). When the smokes go off, the relay will close and the alarm panel will see that and be able to repond appropriately.

A. What everyone already said is valid. The people on this board are a great resource.

B. In my jurisdiction of BFE, all the inspector cares to see is that the smoke detectors are interconnected and on a battery backup. He, actually she, doesn't care if the smoke detectors are 12V or a zillion volts. Having said this, I would use 2 wire, 12V smoke detectors connected to zone 16 on the Elk M1 panel via fire rated cable and forget about the G.E. 120V relay connected complexities. I would get a bunch of System sensor 2 wire smoke detectors and wire it almost like a commercial installation. You can home run each smoke detector, but I don't think it is worth it. If there is a fire, you just want to get out of the house. Who cares which sensor triggered. Be sure you check with your inspector before pulling any wire. You want to be sure you don't have to pull out something that doesn't pass code.

 

[IVB]

You can home run each smoke detector, but I don't think it is worth it. If there is a fire, you just want to get out of the house. Who cares which sensor triggered.

If the alarm goes off, I'd rather not have to stop and wonder "Hmmm, i wonder where the fire is. Let me take a random guess, and keep going from room to room, wondering, and hoping I don't encounter a situation where the fire is between me & the kids".

There's places to scrimp & save in Security, but the $11 that the extra wire will cost is certainly not one of them.

 

[drvnbysound]

When my (spec) home was built, I was able to get in with 2 days of wiring time before drywall was installed. The electricians had already wired for smoke detectors so I didnt worry with it at the time - and still havent... with where they are all located, it will be easy for me to gain access to all of them, run 22/4 or other wiring to them, and swap them out later if I desire to do so.

Anyhow, the point I wanted to make was that I did in fact run all the wiring (doors, windows, PIR's, etc) and install my own alarm system. When the inspector came, all he looked for was the fact that the transformer to power the alarm was not installed inside the wiring can. This was at the same time I found out by the inspector that I didnt even have to pull the permit for the alarm install, because as the homeowner I apparently had the right to install whatever I wanted. Fortunately all worked out well with the inspection anyway, and I didnt have any issues.

In either case, you will certainly want to check with your local officials and find out what permits, if any, have to be pulled before you do work that isnt approved :-\

 

[Neurorad]

You may want to consider some flood sensors, with an electronically controlled valved on the water main. Elk makes a decent valve, though pricey. Many people use water sensors from GRI, fed by 22/4, via the Elk. Keypad function button press resets the valve, after it's tripped.

Little kids may cause some flood problems, but it's usually old plumbing - you may want to skip it, with new construction, if you're looking to same some money. Though, the theater in the basement may have some expensive electronics you may worry about...

It's one of the main reasons I'm replacing my current alarm, with an M1. My plumbing is 15 years old, and starting to groan (and leak).

Some locations to consider wiring 22/4 for water sensors: behind toilets, under sinks, laundry room, near water heater(s), near tubs, basement mechanical room, basement corners, electronics closet(s), near water filters and water softeners, behind fridges/freezers.

I've had floods from an old under-sink water filter in the kitchen, and in the basement mechanical room from a ruptured water heater. Both in the first year of ownership.