Wife wants security in new home...I agree!

[DJK]

Don't forget conduit to future proof.

One nice thing about Cat5e is it can be used for some many funtions, and I have found myself "hijacking" lines that were close to something that I forgot.

 

[lewisjd]

thanks for all your replies! i've decided against running the cat5 to the window sensors, but im still going to run cat5 to the doors. i have a few arduinos that down the road i would probably want to something with. might as well, right?

is 22/4 fire rated an ok substitue for 18/4 fire rated for smokes? didnt want to have to buy a huge roll of 18/4 and not really need it.

also, (i live in ankeny, Iowa, if you need to know) does my cat5 and 22/4 need to be terminated for inspection? i will not be buying the elk stuff right away, maybe in a month or so.

 

[sic0048]

Speaking from experience here. I would buy the door and window sensors and install them before the drywall and trim go up. You don't need to buy the actual ELK alarm parts, but go ahead and terminate the sensor ends. It is 100 times harder after drywall and trim have been installed. No one wants to remove newly installed trim just to install their sensors.

For PIRs and Glassbreaks, as long as the drywallers know to leave those pigtails exposed and sticking through the drywall, they can easily be added later. So you don't have to buy them right away if you don't want to.

 

[CORT]

You can home run each smoke detector, but I don't think it is worth it. If there is a fire, you just want to get out of the house. Who cares which sensor triggered.

If the alarm goes off, I'd rather not have to stop and wonder "Hmmm, i wonder where the fire is. Let me take a random guess, and keep going from room to room, wondering, and hoping I don't encounter a situation where the fire is between me & the kids".

There's places to scrimp & save in Security, but the $11 that the extra wire will cost is certainly not one of them.

I am curious to know how you are handling your individual smoke detector zones?

I'll be the first to appreciate having every single sensor in a security system on its own zone, but most 4 bedroom houses are going to have 8 to 12 smoke detectors. If you put each detector on its own zone, it seems to me that the cost and complexity goes up astronomically. It is not just the extra cost of wire. Most people will need an additional input expander just to handle the smoke detector zones. Plus, if each device is on its own zone, to do it right, aren't you committed to 4 wire smoke detectors. I believe each chain requires its own EOL advisory relay. Then how do you interconnect the sounders. Are you putting a siren/sounder in each sleeping chamber and in all the common areas? Or if you are using low voltage smoke detectors with integral sounders, are you putting a reversing relay on every single zone so that you can trigger the sounders? The cost and complexity of these extras seem significant. You almost need a separate enclosure just to handle the extra components. This is one of the reasons why I suggested keeping all the smoke detectors in a chain on Elk's 2 wire zone (16).

Is 22/4 fire rated an ok substitue for 18/4 fire rated for smokes? didnt want to have to buy a huge roll of 18/4 and not really need it.

also, (i live in ankeny, Iowa, if you need to know) does my cat5 and 22/4 need to be terminated for inspection? i will not be buying the elk stuff right away, maybe in a month or so.

For your general rough-in inspection, the inspector probably doesn't care about what you've done with your low voltage work, but for your final inspection, you will likely need to demonstrate an operational smoke detection system with interconnectedness and battery back-up. Finally, if the smoke detector chain is "long", then I would stay with 18 ga wire as opposed to 22 ga.

 

[lewisjd]

I agree, I don't care to know which of the smokes goes off, as long as I know they are working. From the bedroom door, i can see all the way across the house (expect for the basement, obviously) so getting individual notification isn't that important.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

IVB makes a good point. You don't have to run every detector in its own individual zone, but instead could keep them in 'sections' of your house based on escape routes. Then have an announcement telling you which exit to take on a fire alarm! That plus turning lights on, unlocking mag locks, etc... Also, I read where you don't want to have lights come on 'full' bright, rather have them dimmed during a fire.

 

[lewisjd]

oooooh, how cool would it be for it to just turn on the lights for the best route out of the house? like light the hallway, then to the second bedroom, then the outside lights.

 

[IVB]

I'll be the first to appreciate having every single sensor in a security system on its own zone, but most 4 bedroom houses are going to have 8 to 12 smoke detectors. If you put each detector on its own zone, it seems to me that the cost and complexity goes up astronomically. It is not just the extra cost of wire. Most people will need an additional input expander just to handle the smoke detector zones. Plus, if each device is on its own zone, to do it right, aren't you committed to 4 wire smoke detectors. I believe each chain requires its own EOL advisory relay. Then how do you interconnect the sounders. Are you putting a siren/sounder in each sleeping chamber and in all the common areas? Or if you are using low voltage smoke detectors with integral sounders, are you putting a reversing relay on every single zone so that you can trigger the sounders? The cost and complexity of these extras seem significant. You almost need a separate enclosure just to handle the extra components. This is one of the reasons why I suggested keeping all the smoke detectors in a chain on Elk's 2 wire zone (16).

Easy killer, you're going to the other extreme there. Sure, if I wanted to go the full monty, I could do all of that. But, there is a thing as 'shades of grey' here. By first homerunning the wire, it's up to you as to whether you want to tie them all together on Z16 or individual zones.

And I suppose you're right, it's not just $11. You'll probably suck up all of your main board zones with that, so now you need an expander. That's $70. If you choose, you can put in EOLRs for each line, that's 10 smokes * $15 = $150.

So now we're up to $11 in wire, $70 for a smoke, and $150 for EOLRs. That's $231. When you have a fire and you have no freakin idea which path to take to save your kids, i'll bet you wish you didn't go out to that nice dinner with your wife for valentines day/date night, and spent the $$ on safety instead.

BTW, for sirens/sounders, I would damn well hope that you put in some audible indicator in each sleeping & common area regardless of all on one zone or each in different zones. Otherwise, not only are you gambling on knowing which path to take out of your house, you're praying that you can quickly wake up your family and your sleeping kids as they might not have heard the central one.

 

[mustangcoupe]

is 22/4 fire rated an ok substitue for 18/4 fire rated for smokes? didnt want to have to buy a huge roll of 18/4 and not really need it.

Fire rated is not just the consideration... look around there has been a recent discussion about cable and colors but I beleive fire rated and RED jacket is required for smokes.

 

[AceCannon]

I know you said 'security', but we've learned long ago that 'security' term can be stretched pretty far. So if I was building a house and had lots of cheap Cat5 available I'd run a drop to every light switch location (just don't terminate it inside the box..) for future hardwired lighting automation. I'd also run another drop of Cat5 to each switch for audio control and either run speaker wires from there to a couple of locations in each room or homerun speaker wires from each room to a central location.

Just saying, 'cause once you get started...

I must echo the sentiment to put cat5 to each light switch location. I just finished terminating my wiring for the kitchen and keeping room in my new house, the electrician did the HV stuff for my 12 ALC devices. The scene switches are very, very cool. WAF is high. This is so much better than the X10 in my old house - a different league. Bravo, OnQ. Completely functional hardwired lighting at a fraction of the cost of Vantage, Lutron, etc.

Maybe I sound like a commercial (no affiliation), but this is really exceptional kit.

BTW, I used 66 blocks to terminate the LV / cat5e wiring from the switch locations. Works great. I don't think you need the special branch hubs that have DIP switches. Bridging clips on 66 blocks work great for trouble shooting.

 

[tmbrown97]

The one thing I have to point out if you haven't already covered it... The KP2's were why I chose the Elk to begin with - I wanted the flush-mount... just know that they require the flush-mount box for the true flush-mount look... and they don't come with speakers - so at least in my case, the extra 22/4 was an after-thought. I chose to put the SP-12's (memory here - I hope it's right) - they're designed so you can break them from their faceplate and install them behind the keypad inside the flush-mount housing. They're not the clearest speaker but I wouldn't do an M1 with KP2's without them - that's actually all I use for speakers around the house. I did buy a few extras though with the intent of putting a few in other parts of the house for additional coverage of the voices/sounds but I haven't bothered yet - the kids aren't old enough to understand the voice commands but I'll install them before they are.

Beyond that - I'll echo any thoughts for glassbreaks (scare them away before they enter, not after)... and I have smoke/fire throughout my house, but because I'm cheap, only one is monitored... if I wanted to spend more money, I'd link every one in the house to the alarm - and I'd consider zoning so I'd know if we should clear out via the bedroom windows vs. the front door... But much of my opinions come from experience *after* installing my system... it's hard to get it all right in the beginning, in a rush...

 

[tmbrown97]

oh yeah - I also installed the 912 I think it was... for custom alerts/voices/prompts... I'm weird - I hate voices (my GPS' all have the voices disabled) - so I want a chirp I know to differentiate alerts... so I chose that so I could pick my own alerts and doorbells.

 

[felixrosbergen]

I kind of wishes i had used 66 blocks to terminate all the alarm wiring. At the moment I have a ton of spare and 'future' wiring that is just hanging loose (coiled) and is a bit in the way. At least with 66 blocks you could terminate everything on there (including spares and future) and things would be neater.

Also think carefully about coax splitting to your TVs (as a backup to SageTV in my case, and the backup has been needed on a few ocasions) and any splitters amps you may need for this. Since coax is not so flexible this all tends to take up a good bit of space.

You can check out my showcase... al wiring for fixed devices (alarm sensors, etc) is connected directly to the ELK components (but I wish i had gone the 66 block route) but all 'Media Outlets' as i call them (cable runs that end up on wall plates) go to a path panel since they can be flexible configured to have different functions (which has already come in very handy).

 

[signal15]

I kind of wishes i had used 66 blocks to terminate all the alarm wiring. At the moment I have a ton of spare and 'future' wiring that is just hanging loose (coiled) and is a bit in the way. At least with 66 blocks you could terminate everything on there (including spares and future) and things would be neater.

Use 110 blocks. Same idea, but cat5e compliant if you decide to patch a couple of network runs through it. Plus, it's what most people are using now, except for the old guys that have been doing it for a LONG time and don't want to switch.

 

[AceCannon]

Use 110 blocks. Same idea, but cat5e compliant if you decide to patch a couple of network runs through it. Plus, it's what most people are using now, except for the old guys that have been doing it for a LONG time and don't want to switch.

I used 110-block style punchdowns for my patch panel but 66-block for my ALC wiring and security. The bridging clip concept makes more sense to me for debugging potential ALC and security sensor issues, plus there is no need for RJ45 in these applications.