2 wire and 4 wire smokes on elk?

[pjwinstalls]

I prewired my entire house for 2 wire smokes, both floors. I need to use the 2WTA-B since each detector is required to have a sounder. It would be a chore to rewire my first floor to 4 wire. So what i want to do is install the (5) 2WTA-B on the first floor which go to zone 16 on the elk. And then rewire my 2nd floor (attic makes it easier) for 4 wire and then put in the equivalent system sensor 4 wire sounder smokes. But I need them all go off and sound if one of them does. Can this be done?

second question...what wired carbon monoxide sensor is recommend?

THanks

Philip

 

[Digger]

I prewired my entire house for 2 wire smokes, both floors. I need to use the 2WTA-B since each detector is required to have a sounder. It would be a chore to rewire my first floor to 4 wire. So what i want to do is install the (5) 2WTA-B on the first floor which go to zone 16 on the elk. And then rewire my 2nd floor (attic makes it easier) for 4 wire and then put in the equivalent system sensor 4 wire sounder smokes. But I need them all go off and sound if one of them does. Can this be done?

second question...what wired carbon monoxide sensor is recommend?

THanks

Philip

to make all of the sounders go off at the same time you will need a System Sensor reversing module for each zone that has smoke detectors with sounders. Do not put any thermal detectors on these zones (unless they are part of the smoke detector) per the System Sensor installation instructions.

Any 4 wire CO detector rated 12 Vdc nominal should work. I have used the Quantum Group (for get the model number) and Napco Firewolf FW-CO.

 

[pjwinstalls]

I read about the reversing relay and understand i would need one on each of the two fire zones but I dont understand how both zones would go off at the same time if only 1 smoke on a zone went off? Wouldnt just the smokes on that zone with its reversing relay go off only?

Also, do you recommend any other smokes with sounders other then the System sensor....? they are a little pricey compared to esl or dsc.

Thanks
Philip

I prewired my entire house for 2 wire smokes, both floors. I need to use the 2WTA-B since each detector is required to have a sounder. It would be a chore to rewire my first floor to 4 wire. So what i want to do is install the (5) 2WTA-B on the first floor which go to zone 16 on the elk. And then rewire my 2nd floor (attic makes it easier) for 4 wire and then put in the equivalent system sensor 4 wire sounder smokes. But I need them all go off and sound if one of them does. Can this be done?

second question...what wired carbon monoxide sensor is recommend?

THanks

Philip

to make all of the sounders go off at the same time you will need a System Sensor reversing module for each zone that has smoke detectors with sounders. Do not put any thermal detectors on these zones (unless they are part of the smoke detector) per the System Sensor installation instructions.

Any 4 wire CO detector rated 12 Vdc nominal should work. I have used the Quantum Group (for get the model number) and Napco Firewolf FW-CO.

 

[SkyBolt]

You might want to look at "Tandem" smoke detectors, they are usally 110v powered and have a common wire which will trigger the other detectors. GE makes a nice one (350CX) which I use with the ELK in 2 wire mode, it has form A and C relays on it. If there all in one zone you only need one GE detector and the rest can be plain tandem detectors.

-Skybolt

 

[programmergeek]

There is probably a way to do it right at the elk panel with a reversing relay, or elk relay if one goes off it shorts the other, just like one triggered you would get a change in resistance. I can't think through it right now, low sugar... afternoon.... but that could be possibility.

 

[SkyBolt]

There is probably a way to do it right at the elk panel with a reversing relay, or elk relay if one goes off it shorts the other, just like one triggered you would get a change in resistance. I can't think through it right now, low sugar... afternoon.... but that could be possibility.

Yes - for the zones at the panel but not if you want all of the smokes to also trip locally, The smokes would have to support that. But maybe I am not understanding the question, ... Caffine.

-Skybolt

 

[Spanky]

When the fire alarm activates, have a rule trigger an output relay such as output 3 which will trigger the reversing relay module. Reversing the current to the smoke detectors make the sounders on the smokes turn on.
You will need two Rules, one to turn on Output 3 and one to turn off output 3 when the alarm turns off.

 

[pjwinstalls]

Spanky,

If I just bite the bullet and fish a 4-wire line to all my 1st floor smokes and also wire my 2nd floor smokes as 4-wire, should i put them onto two different zones and if i do that, do i still need two reversing relays and follow the instruction you gave above or.............. should i wire both floors in series?

Thanks

When the fire alarm activates, have a rule trigger an output relay such as output 3 which will trigger the reversing relay module. Reversing the current to the smoke detectors make the sounders on the smokes turn on.
You will need two Rules, one to turn on Output 3 and one to turn off output 3 when the alarm turns off.

 

[dutchyn]

I'm in a related situation; I ran separate 18/4 to each 4-wire smoke (ASD200); no daisy-chain. I want common sounding. I checked with ELK (thanks Brad Weeks) that the zone NEG and the SAUX NEG are a common reference. That means I can run one NEG to satisfy three items: the zone neg, the power neg, and the interconnect relay neg. That means I need one wire for each of the three items, and a common NEG -- 4 conductors.

If you are willing to consider the ASD200 detector, then my wiring diagram (this CocoonTech article. (which 57 people have looked at with no responses)) might help.

Chris D.

 

[programmergeek]

Also just another hint if you are running smokes with sounders and they all go off watch your power requirnments you will probably need another seprate power supply from the elk. I thnk the elk only can power about 3 of them but it depends on your total load on the system.

 

[Neurorad]

then my wiring diagram (this CocoonTech article. (which 57 people have looked at with no responses)) might help.

That cracks me up.

People seem so afraid to post, moreso on this forum than on many others.

 

[WayneW]

then my wiring diagram (this CocoonTech article. (which 57 people have looked at with no responses)) might help.

That cracks me up.

People seem so afraid to post, moreso on this forum than on many others.

I suspect many here are like me... we prefer not to guess at answers involving life safety and prefer to wait for somebody that knows to respond. No offense to anybody, but no answers to a post usually means nobody knows for sure, rather than nobody cares to help (at least I hope so, I would have answered if I knew).

 

[gatchel]

Technically speaking, you can use two reversing relay modules triggered from the same output (3). You will need to evaluate your current demands as to not overload the elk. Make sure to check local codes, etc, etc, etc... The sounders might not be in exact sync on the separate zones. I am not a fire system guy. Just set up the RRS-MOD like the included directions say for the 2 wire and 4 wire zones.


For CO I use the CO1224 from System sensor. I have one on each floor in the recommended locations per their instructions.

 

[dutchyn]

I suspect many here are like me... we prefer not to guess at answers involving life safety and prefer to wait for somebody that knows to respond. No offense to anybody, but no answers to a post usually means nobody knows for sure, rather than nobody cares to help (at least I hope so, I would have answered if I knew).

I got an answer from Brad Weeks at ELK. I can do what I want with four conductors in the cable -- a shared NEG for SAUX, COM zone input, and the sounder work. The smoke detectors I selected, ASD200, have a 10mA standby, and 80mA maximum. I can easily run 5 of them off the ELK; but I added a P624 power supply to support the WSV and other PIR motion detectors.

Chris D.