68 Camaro starting problem

[pete_c]

About two weeks ago replaced the battery on my wife's car. 
 
I could not remove the postive lead on the battery no matter what I tried such that I replaced it. 
 
I did clean the posts and used a stiff wire brush to remove the residue on the battery post. 
 
I started then to tap the terminal post with a hammer and broke it with the first tap and the terminal post came right off.
 
The lead was short such that I just purchased one that looked similiarly guaged (8?) and put the right ends on it. 
 
It was a PITA
 
That said I also did some LV wiring outside in the last few weeks. 
 
I couldn't solder the outdoor LV wires so I dipped them initially in a vinegar/salt mixture for a few minutes then a sodium bicarbonate/water paste mixture. 
 
The two mixtures cleaned the copper wires such that I could solder on them.  5 minutes each mixture.
 
I have never tried this methodology with an automobile wire before. (and didn't even think or consider doing this when I replaced the battery on the wifes car earlier).

 

[mikefamig]

About two weeks ago replaced the battery on my wife's car. 
 
I could not remove the postive lead on the battery no matter what I tried such that I replaced it. 
 
I did clean the posts and used a stiff wire brush to remove the residue on the battery post. 
 
I started then to hit the terminal post with a hammer and broke it with the first tap and the terminal post came right off.
 
The lead was short such that I just purchased one that looked similiarly guaged (8?) and put the right ends on it. 
 
It was a PITA
 
That said I also did some LV wiring outside in the last few weeks. 
 
I couldn't solder the outdoor LV wires so I dipped them initially in a vinegar mixture for a few minutes then a sodium bicarbonate mixture. 
 
The two mixtures cleaned the copper wires such that I could solder on them. 
 
I have never tried this methodology with an automobile wire before. (and didn't even think or consider doing this when I replaced the battery on the wifes car earlier).

 
When you say "mixture" do you mean with water?

 

[pete_c]

Yeah for the vinegar mixture it was just salt and vinegar and for the bicarb mixture it was a paste with just a little water.
 
Note that this is on the presupposition that you can get to both wire ends.
 
Just now googling to clean a battery post it and one hit shows this.  Note that this is a copy and paste from some web site.
 
So last night I got a call from Shannon that the car wouldn't start. About 3 months ago I installed a push button ignition with cheap Chinese part. The moment she called I had this eerie feeling that- that is what went bad because almost every cheap Ebay Chinese import part falls apart in 3 months or less. Then again this car has had a poltergeist in the electrical system since the day I bought it. My assumption was it was all fixed when I did the massive wiring job, but recently the clock would reset on ignition. Today I found out why.... corrosion on the battery terminals. Yep, turns out I can't blame the Chinese, or my wiring as both were was good. One look at the battery terminal, a new one no less than 3 months old, and I could see why I was having problems. The resistance in the terminal had been growing, first showing up in the clock at high-amperage moments like engine ignition, and eventually it led to full a full no-start condition, despite having power to lights, horns etc. Science is an interesting thing when it all comes together. Battery corrosion tends to worsen during the summer when you're running higher amperage items like the air conditioning and blower motor. Combined with my lack of preventive measures such as anti-corrosion washers due to a rushed re-assembly on the ignition (mother in-law was arriving) basically it was just a matter of time till it happened. Houston we have a problem.
 
Today I fixed my mistakes and recorded it for your interest. While such a thing is a common fix, I felt I needed to post this after a situation several months back where I witnessed a female co-worker of Shannon's; dump coca cola on her battery terminal to get it to start. There was a couple problems with this. a) The battery was plain dead... and no amount of soda is going to restart a dead battery. B) I get that Coca-Cola is corrosive, and its high acidity levels will clean the corrosion.... but I'm not about to pour sugary sticky cola on my car: It's plain dumb. On the other hand, vinegar, (your flavor of choice) seems to work well as an alternative without the need to give your car the caffeine jitters afterwards.
 
I'll explain:
 
1) Go get the stuff you need. It's cheap and simple and costs about $5. Never mind the superglue in the picture, that's for fixing something else and accidentally got into the picture. You need battery anti-corrosion washers, a terminal brush, and some dielectric battery-goo. (or you can use Vaseline) You're also going to need some vinegar and a little cup to hold it, and some box-wrenches to remove the terminals (usually 12,13, or 14mm depending on the terminal.)
 
2) Once you loosen the terminal, fill a small cup with vinegar. I prefer apple cider due to its wonderful aroma though it also happens to be what I had on hand. Try to maneuver the terminal into the vinegar and let it soak for about 3 minutes. It should come out fairly clean.

3) After this you'll want to break out your metal brush you've purchased and go to town using the male end of the brush and sticking it in the female orifice. On the terminal end you'll want a up and down motion just like using your vibrator. Repeat steps 2 and 3 till you end up with a sparkling new battery terminal.

4) As you can see now the terminal is 100 times better than where we began. We will now proceed to use the other end of the brush and clean the actually battery post itself. This is done in a twisting manner and should become relatively clean without any other effort.
 
5) Take a clean rag and clean off the battery at this point and place your washers around the post. It's like condoms for the battery. Tighten down the terminals, and check to make sure they can't sit and spin.
 
6) Once the critters have left the car it's time to get dirty. With the terminals tightened, the washers on, it's now time to cover the outside of every metal surface of the post and terminals with some battery goo. Think of it as a facial for the car. Instead of removing blackheads, it keeps the terminals from corroding.
 
7) And you're done! Start the car and you're good to go.
 
Before:
 

 
After
 

 
BTW the old car has never seen a winter nor been driven much in the rain.  It does stil have some 30K original miles on it.
 

 
That said I removed all of the pollution stuff from it in the 1980's, redid the exhaust manifold putting headers on it.  I also redid the linkage stuff on it for the SU carburator and put Harley air filter on the carburator.  I have a few spare parts to the car which I have collected over the years.  The metal linkage bracket stuff was done up by a wizard welder friend who worked at the time for a steel mill.  Sort of redid much of the stock stuff.  (also replace ignition going to an electronic ignition and replaced mechanical fuel pump with an electric fuel pump).  You can tell what I did to the engine looking at it and listening to it. I know the car will start but do not know if I have the energy to play with it anymore.

 

[mikefamig]

When we were kids we used to use coca cola or baking soda to clean battery cables.
 
Mike.

 

[wkearney99]

You generally SHOULD NOT be soldering wires in vehicles.  Solder makes a brittle connection, prone to cracking due to normal vibrations from operating the vehicle.  I'm talking about in-line splices and such.  Those don't usually have enough support or strain relief to avoid the problems.  The same is true for boats.  Sure, there's plenty of soldered connections on circuit boards, but those tend to be in places where the components have fixed mounts.

 

[mikefamig]

You generally SHOULD NOT be soldering wires in vehicles.  Solder makes a brittle connection, prone to cracking due to normal vibrations from operating the vehicle.  I'm talking about in-line splices and such.  Those don't usually have enough support or strain relief to avoid the problems.  The same is true for boats.  Sure, there's plenty of soldered connections on circuit boards, but those tend to be in places where the components have fixed mounts.

 
Yes I agree, I was talking about tinning the male spade of the connector, not solderiing the connecter to the wire.

 

[mikefamig]

It occurs to me that maybe I should explain what I mean by tinning the connector. When you have a male/female connection that has become loose or corroded  with age you can improve it by heating the male part and applying some flux and a little solder to just coat it's surface. It not only makes a new clean surface but also adds a little material that will tighten up the connection.
 
Mike.

 

[pete_c]

You have mentioned (I think?) that you have removed the starter before. 
 
Can't you just remove it again and clean the terminal posts on the solenoid and wires while its all apart?
 
With my adds to the older vehicle I have not protected the electronics.  That said the battery is in section of the front of the engine compartment (english way) that gets sealed from the weather when you close the hood.  The hood though opens from the middle of the car to the front of the car.  When you open the front hood it exposes the entire engine top and sides which makes for easy engine work.  When you sit in the vehicle you feet go into the engine compartment such that those sections are protected from the engine; but it gets really hot after about an hour or so of driving the vehicle. 
 
Here on the newer car (but not driven much  (- 14 years old) the oversized battery is in the trunk.  On the TD MB (not driven much these days ~ 17 years old) the battery is under the rear seat (kind of a PITA to get to it).  The electronics in the front hood on this vehicle are also very protected from the weather.  I have put plastic parts in the dishwasher to clean them (it was very low on the WAF).  The newest truck (same mfg) the oversized battery is also in the rear cargo hold lower sections.  The engine compartment electronics are still done up exactly like the car that is much older.
 
I have never seen anything like it as it sits very low in the cargo compartment.
 
There is an engine compartment on either side in the front for electrical connections.  One side is sealed from the weather two ways.  One is the metal compartment itself.  Inside and the electronics box is also sealed from the weather in a plastic box.  The other side compartment has battery jumper terminals and terminals for both positive ignition on and always on and ground terminals.  I modded this section adding more electronics to the automobile.  It is totally sealed from the weather.  I did use all crimped terminals for my adds here.  It is four wheel drive and it is built to drive in the snow.
 
Here are some pictures.  Last winter replaced one of two sensors in the front of the engine.  The cooling pieces are modular but I had to remove parts of the cooling sections to get to the two sensors.  Note here too that there is a stabilizer bar between the two sections pictures (removed while I play with the automobile). 
 

 

[RAL]

Does anyone here know of any way to improve an electrical connection like this in the way of a good conductive gel or something that I can add to it. If I could get to it better I would tin the connector with solder but it's just too hard to reach and to remove the wire end from the plastic connector.

I sprayed with electronic cleaner and scrubbed with a toothbrush and it didn't seem to help so I'm thinking of maybe a chemical solution to the problem. Any ideas?

Mike.

 
 
I've never used this in an automotive application before, but in other equipment, we used a silver plating powder on connectors to make better connections.
 
http://www.cool-amp.com/cool_amp.html
 
You would need to clean up the connector first, to get it as bright and shiny as possible, then apply the plating powder.
 
For your application, the Conducto-Lube might be a better choice.
 
The downside is that both are extremely expensive! 

 

[mikefamig]

I've never used this in an automotive application before, but in other equipment, we used a silver plating powder on connectors to make better connections.
 
http://www.cool-amp.com/cool_amp.html
 
You would need to clean up the connector first, to get it as bright and shiny as possible, then apply the plating powder.
 
For your application, the Conducto-Lube might be a better choice.
 
The downside is that both are extremely expensive! 

The conducto lube is exactly what I had in mind but at $75/ounce I'd say that very expensive is an understatement. That's worse than inkjet ink!

 

[mikefamig]

A little searching came up with this
 
 
http://www.amazon.com/Silver-Conductive-Grease-Temp-70/dp/B00447S32W

 

[RAL]

The conducto lube is exactly what I had in mind but at $75/ounce I'd say that very expensive is an understatement. That's worse than inkjet ink!

 
Yes, and that 1 oz quantity would be close to a lifetime supply for occasional users like us.  I'd be happy if I could  buy 1/10 oz for $7.50, and even that would be more than I'd need.
 
 

A little searching came up with this
 
http://www.amazon.com/Silver-Conductive-Grease-Temp-70/dp/B00447S32W

 
That  grease might do the job. Though it's less expensive, it's still not cheap in terms of cost per ounce!

 

[mikefamig]

I'm going to give it a try for twenty bucks
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251992497527?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

[mikefamig]

You have mentioned (I think?) that you have removed the starter before. 
 
Can't you just remove it again and clean the terminal posts on the solenoid and wires while its all apart?

Pete - this car is restored and all of the connections in the solenoid/starter circuit at this point are like new. I've replaced any questionable wire ends and the battery and starter connections are very clean.

Here are some pictures.  Last winter replaced one of two sensors in the front of the engine.  The cooling pieces are modular but I had to remove parts of the cooling sections to get to the two sensors.  Note here too that there is a stabilizer bar between the two sections pictures (removed while I play with the automobile). 
 

2001-Electronics.jpg

Looks European to me, is  that your BMW?

 

[mikefamig]

 I apologize for the BMW remark, I just waww the pic of the Spitfire. I need to slow down.
 
Mike.