Anybody Using More Than 100 Zones On An Elk M1?

[upstatemike]

I am finally getting close to firing up my M1 once I get the IP Interface fixed, so I was starting to look at how I might interface it with things like Homeseer. In looking at the various plug-ins for HS I was shocked to see that most of them only support 100 input zones from the M1. Do most people really use less than half the capacity of this panel? For my initial install I had reserved the first 16 inputs for temp sensors and added an expander for smoke detectors, an expander for 16 hard-wired security zones, and 3 expanders for 48 general HA inputs (which I thought was conservative since I currently use all 80 HA inputs on my Stargate). So that is 96 plus I plan to use 48 wireless security sensors for a total of 144 zones to start off, with a strong probability that I will expand in the future. So what is the deal with Homeseer only supporting 100 input zones? Is there really no demand for more than that? I'm getting kind of frustrated with HA systems that don't scale well!!!

 

[Spanky]

Mike,
Going over 100 zones on a security or automation controller is more of an exception than a rule. Most secuity systems only need less than 50 zones on the average home. We have seen many cases where the M1 has been maxed out at 208 zones and the installer is calling for more zones, but they are few and far between.

 

[artifice]

Hey UpStateMike,

Another heavy zone user here I guess... Just in the midst of doing my M1 install. Like yourself, I'm reserving the first 16 zones for temp sensors. Additionally I am installing 2 16 zone expanders on each of my three floors. These along with my main M1 total 112 zones. Additionally I am also adding a wireless receiver. So I do feel your pain!

--David

 

[upstatemike]

Mike,
Going over 100 zones on a security or automation controller is more of an exception than a rule. Most secuity systems only need less than 50 zones on the average home. We have seen many cases where the M1 has been maxed out at 208 zones and the installer is calling for more zones, but they are few and far between.

Well that is disappointing to hear because it means that Homeseer probably never will support more than 100 zones. I guess my options are either to go with Omnipotence ECS which I'm pretty sure will support the full capacity of the panel, or else limit the M1 to fire, security, and lighting only and keep the Stargate on line for HVAC and general automation tasks that would have been handled with a PC automation application.

 

[WayneW]

I agree that using more than 100 zones is pretty rare. Look how many consumer alarm panels only support 6 or 8 zones. I have 96 zones.

Take a look at Electron's my.elk script. It should support everything. http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showtopic=2353

 

[upstatemike]

I agree that using more than 100 zones is pretty rare. Look how many consumer alarm panels only support 6 or 8 zones. I have 96 zones.

Take a look at Electron's my.elk script. It should support everything. http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showtopic=2353

I will. I also see that Ultrajones just posted on the Homeseer forum that he will increase the input zones of his Elk plugin to 198 later today.

 

[electron]

I can't imagine why the plugin would be limited to just 100 zones, it shouldn't make a difference to the programmer if the customer wants to use 100, or all 208.

 

[upstatemike]

I can't imagine why the plugin would be limited to just 100 zones, it shouldn't make a difference to the programmer if the customer wants to use 100, or all 208.

I don't know why but there seemed to be some reluctance to use that many House Codes (the new version will use 8.) I don't know if it was an issue or just nobody realized that folks might use that many inputs.

 

[123]

upstatemike,

The ELK M1 driver I created for Premise Home Control supports all 208 zones. It is more than an API, it is a full-blown driver with a user-interface.

• Install Premise (free).
• Install the ELK M1 driver (free).
• Tell the driver you have 144 zones (just so you don't clutter its UI with unused zones).
• Run an initial "Discovery" and it will retrieve the name, current state, and type of each zone.
• Done! Now open some doors, trigger motion detectors, etc and the driver's UI shows you all the action.

The driver comes with a comprehensive Reference Manual and I'm available to answer your questions. Even if you have no plans to forego Homeseer, I encourage you to give this a try ... just to experience what you'll be missing!

PS
All of the source-code is visible and I plan to continue enhancing the driver.

 

[DavidL]

MainLobby supports all of the possible ELK M1 zones. Just run the installation installer, restart the server, choose a com port or ethernet IP / Port and you are connected with all zones reporting in.

 

[ultrajones]

UltraM1G (an Elk M1 HomeSeer plug-in) version 1.1.3123.12830 was just posted to the HomeSeer updater which adds support for ALL ELk M1 areas, keypads, tasks, custom settings, users, inputs, outputs, lighting and thermostat devices.

Base Code: 1-99 (Areas (8), Status (1), Keypads (16), Tasks (32), Custom (20))
User Codes: 1-99, 1-99, 1-99 (covers 199 + Elk built in user devices)
Input Codes: 1-99, 1-99, 1-99 (covers all 208 input devices)
Output Codes: 1-99, 1-99, 1-99 (covers all 208 output devices)
Lighting Codes: 1-99, 1-99, 1-99 (covers all 256 lighting devices)
Themostat Code: 1-99, 1-99 (total 16 thermostats)

Testing shows 1062 HomeSeer devices successfully built with a fully populated Elk M1 system.

I sure wish I could afford 100 Elk M1 input devices.

Regards,
Ultrajones

 

[electron]

Hey UJ, thanks for the update! How come that all zones weren't supported by default? Just trying to understand if it is a Homeseer limitation or something.

 

[123]

MainLobby ... choose a com port or ethernet IP / Port and you are connected with all zones reporting in.

I'm always looking for ways to improve my M1 driver. When you say "all zones reporting in" does that mean all possible zones (208) are displayed or just the ones that are operational (144 in upstatemike's case)? I'm curious to know how MainLobby does it.

The only way to distinguish an unused zone from a used zone is to check its zone definition. If it is "Disabled" then one can assume it is unused and it should not be displayed by the driver. Perhaps this is what MainLobby does.

I chose to follow CQC's direction and let the user decide which zones should be handled by the driver. If you have an expander board with unused inputs (i.e. tagged as disabled), you may still want to see them in the driver as a reminder that you have a few spare zones left.

 

[ultrajones]

Hey UJ, thanks for the update! How come that all zones weren't supported by default? Just trying to understand if it is a Homeseer limitation or something.

The plug-in always supported all 208 zones internally, it just didn't allow you to create more than 99 HomeSeer devices. This was partly due to the 99 device housecode limit and my understanding that no one even came close to having 99 zones. I guess I was wrong. Anyway, the issue reported by upstatemike has been resolved.

Regards,
Ultrajones

 

[DavidL]

MainLobby ... choose a com port or ethernet IP / Port and you are connected with all zones reporting in.

I'm always looking for ways to improve my M1 driver. When you say "all zones reporting in" does that mean all possible zones (208) are displayed or just the ones that are operational (144 in upstatemike's case)? I'm curious to know how MainLobby does it.

The only way to distinguish an unused zone from a used zone is to check its zone definition. If it is "Disabled" then one can assume it is unused and it should not be displayed by the driver. Perhaps this is what MainLobby does.

I chose to follow CQC's direction and let the user decide which zones should be handled by the driver. If you have an expander board with unused inputs (i.e. tagged as disabled), you may still want to see them in the driver as a reminder that you have a few spare zones left.

MainLobby creates a var to display that zone's status et al. For all 208. Since the ELK advises on update, that doesn't consume any more resources. In MainLobby, one can Group the vars so it's not like the user is inundated with all vars to scroll thru - just the Elk ones if grouped on Elk vars.

The user can then create their floorplan view, scroll box, whatever UI metaphor they want in MainLobby client that uses whatever vars they need from the ELK.

Now, the current MainLobby HAI plugin allows the user to advise which zones they are using. This is important as that panel requires polling which does consume resources so one doesn't want to poll an unused zone. We'lll see if this changes with the next major firmware update.