basic setup required

[BraveSirRobbin]

What type of glass break sensors are you using? You might have mentioned it in this thread, but I'm lazy tonight.

Reason I ask is glass breaks I'm familiar with require 12v power and four conductor wire (you are running 22/2 to yours).

Also, I agree with a post above, read about positioning glass break sensors in a room.

EDIT: I see we were replying to this thread at the same time.

 

[Digger]

A Watercop is a very fancy electric water valve with a wireless receiver and you add wireless flood sensors. You can (and in my opinion should) use an electric water valve that costs about $80. So if your flood sensor trips teh ELK M1 will tell the valve to shutoff and it will minimize the damage (I do that and also have it announce over the speakers "Emergency Water Shutoff Valve Activated" and then email my cell phone). You need to run a 4 conductor cable to where your water line comes on the house.

The sprinkler system I mentioned was actually a lawn sprinkler system which you could also automate with the ELK M1 and a relay board.

I am so glad to hear that the local jurisdiction insisted on a fire sprinkler system. The only thing is that if you use an electric water valve you need to make sure you program the ELK not to shut the water off if the Fire Sprinkler is activated (Boy would that be a major mistake). Or put the electric valve after the tap off for the fire sprinkler system to be foolproof.

BTW why not have the laundry on the second floor with the bedrooms and save the up and down on the stairs?

Also can you spring for a tankless water heater? They save a lot of money over time.

Here are some ideas on my list to do in case they interest you.............

If the flood sensor in the laundry room trips shut off the washing machine as well as the main water valve (and minimize the damage if its the drain from the washer). I plan on doing this with an X-10 outlet or an INsteon Appliance Link

If a fire, smoke alarm, or CO alarm go off shut off the furnace, dryer, and water heater (central air to if you have it). Also if you automate your lighting turn on all lights (helps wake you up and lets you see to get out).

Put all smokes etc on seperate zones and have the M1 announce where the fire is (ie master bedroom smoke, kitchen thermal, hallway smoke etc). Same with CO if you have multiple detectors (I have 6).

Add motions for non alarm uses such as occupancy lighting (I did in my laundry room where the lights were left on all day sometimes). It will restart a timer if there is movement in the room (I set mine to 6 mins).

Attic thermals?

OK I think I put you over budget now......... although most of the above is very inexpensive additions.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Water Cop Info

Also FYI you might like looking at Winland Products.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

REad up on glass breaks (and other items) HERE.

 

[rfdesq]

I'm really confused as to how a glass break detectors works and this confuses me on how I would wire it.

A good way to learn is to find a glass break sensor or two that you like. Go to the manufacturer's website and download the associated manual. It should give you installation instructions and a wiring diagram.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

Thanks for the pdf file SirBraveRobbin. After reading the first few chapters about glass break sensors, I better understand now why the glass break sensor in my family room needs to be transfered to another location. It's possible that the glass break sensor that was suggested to me is acoustic based. I also noticed in my drawing that I didn't have any contacts/magnets in windows. Do I still need that? Also, I have a question about the shock glass sensor. What if a professional thief uses a diamond cutter that has suction, does the shock sensor able to detect it?

I'm going to change my glass break wiring from 22/2 to 22/4 or 18/4? 18/4 is more appropriate right?

Right now, I have only done the wiring plans for the first floor. Is Elk M1 Gold though enough to handle that many number of wires I will be installing?

Toymaster, I went to my new construction house this evening, and I took some measurements. The distance from the left corner of dining room to the main door is 28 ft.

EDIT: Can you please guys post a real picture of a glass break sensor installed in action? This way, I will know where to install mine?

Here is the modified drawing of the 1st floor:

The changes I made are:

1. Transfered 2 motion sensors
2. Added strobe light(back)
3. Transfered glass break sensor in family room
4. Transfered keypad in laundry
5. Added heat sensor in 3 car-garage

Please comment guys! Don't forget to send the picture too of your glass break sensor in action!

Thanks everyone!!!

 

[IVB]

Hey. Family & I are in Disneyland now for a little vacation, so I may/not check forums much for the next few days.

Looks like you've got everything well in hand, getting lots of great advice from the crew, frankly much better drawn than my stuff

My only thoughts are what my recent bizarre idea is: Put 3-4 cheap speakers throughout the house, disable the doorbell and telephones normally, use the Elk Doorbell & telephone ring detector & those speakers to playback .wav files on ring. The doorbell would be on a relay, so if the power ever went off or the PC died, it would still work.

Toymaster actually designed all that for me, so he can guide you on the specifics and equipment.

Good luck, welcome to the addiction.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

Have fun IVB!

Ok guys, I just finished 2 more drawings. But don't forget my first modified drawing above. hehehe

The 2 drawings below are the 2nd floor plan and the basement. I remember someone was asking where my furnace was.

Also, what type of wire is used for flood sensors?

I noticed that I don't have magnet sensors in windows? Do I need them if I will be install glass break sensors?

I made a wiring guide for myself below and can someone please check if I got it correctly?

window magnets - 22/2
door magnets - 22/2
heat sensors - 18/4 or 22/2?
smoke sensors - 18/4
co sensors - 18/4
glass break sensors - 18/4
keypad - cat 5e
flood sensors - ?
strobe light - ?

 

[IVB]

Just had a thought about your sparse usage of motion sensors. My personal plan is to use motion sensors for more than just security. I'm not exactly what else yet, but it could be something. hence, i'm putting motion in darn near every room of the house.

One way I've already used it is when I forgot the kitchen speakers on. I have a 4yr old and a 2yr old. I was curious as to which room they/wife were in, and didn't want to get yelled at for turning off the speakers if they were in there.

As I always keep CQC up, I simply alt-tabbed over to the CQC window, pulled up the motion screen, realized they were in the family room, and turned off the kitchen speakers via CQC knowing that my ass wasn't going to get chewed out.

Wouldn't have been possible had I not mounted all those motion sensors. You only have 1 per floor.

 

[toymaster458]

Let's Get a little more detailed on the First Floor.
Make sure you mount the Motion Sensors in the corners. For example the way the drawing looks with the motion in the Family Room it is only going to protect the back half. You want it to protect as much as the Family Room and Kitchen as possible, same with the Dining Room angle it more towards the front door. Also the more I think about it lets add a motion above your closet in the hall to the left of the stairs pointing towards the Laundry Room. Since the Dining Room ceiling goes all the way up how tall are those windows?

On the second floor you there is no easy access to the window in the loft like Bedroom3 is by a roof so you do not need a Glass break there.

In the Attics add a Heat Detector

In the Basement Add Window Contacts to all the windows and ff you want to go crazy and know when a window is open and which one add a window contact to every window. Add a heat detector in the Furnace Room along with a water sensor near the hot water heater. Sump pump level detector in your sump pumps. We also need a Smoke Detector and CO Detector but if I remember correctly your basement is not finished but you plan on it so I am not sure where to add everything else untill you have a layout for that.

As far as some of your questions you use a 22/4 for water sensors, 18/2 for the strobe unless you also have a speaker/siren with it then you need a 18/4 and a 22/2

Don't worry about the elk handling it all. We just add expansion Zones to the system. I am doing one now that needs 5 of them.

Other areas that you may want to cover are HVAC Control, Speaker announcements as suggested by IVB, Touch Screens, House Audio, Intercom, Telephone, Network and the list goes on.

 

[Digger]

Would it be easier to put a small can and an expansion module on the second floor and not homerun all of the wiring for the zones etc? I did that but mine was an existing house so it made it so much easier in my case.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

Let's Get a little more detailed on the First Floor.
Make sure you mount the Motion Sensors in the corners. For example the way the drawing looks with the motion in the Family Room it is only going to protect the back half. You want it to protect as much as the Family Room and Kitchen as possible, same with the Dining Room angle it more towards the front door. Also the more I think about it lets add a motion above your closet in the hall to the left of the stairs pointing towards the Laundry Room. Since the Dining Room ceiling goes all the way up how tall are those windows?

On the second floor you there is no easy access to the window in the loft like Bedroom3 is by a roof so you do not need a Glass break there.

In the Attics add a Heat Detector

In the Basement Add Window Contacts to all the windows and ff you want to go crazy and know when a window is open and which one add a window contact to every window. Add a heat detector in the Furnace Room along with a water sensor near the hot water heater. Sump pump level detector in your sump pumps. We also need a Smoke Detector and CO Detector but if I remember correctly your basement is not finished but you plan on it so I am not sure where to add everything else untill you have a layout for that.

As far as some of your questions you use a 22/4 for water sensors, 18/2 for the strobe unless you also have a speaker/siren with it then you need a 18/4 and a 22/2

Don't worry about the elk handling it all. We just add expansion Zones to the system. I am doing one now that needs 5 of them.

Other areas that you may want to cover are HVAC Control, Speaker announcements as suggested by IVB, Touch Screens, House Audio, Intercom, Telephone, Network and the list goes on.

Thanks toymaster. About the motion sensor in the family room, is the new placement correct as long as I mount it in the corner? I have seen my friend's ADT and I see it almost touching the ceiling and corner? Is that how I should install it?
Or can you please modify the drawing so I know exactly where it should be? Please include the new motion sensor that you are mentioning(closet in hall, left of stairs).

The dining room ceiling is actually the floor of the loft. The height is 9ft. So top dining room window frame might be at 7.5-8 ft.

Second floor, are you telling me to remove the glass break sensor in loft since it is very high and not a good access for burglars? I also have a question about the motion sensor, am I correct that it's not a good idea to have it because we can't tell if my kids wakes up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom.

Thanks for the answers to the wirings. How many zones do you think my setup is needing?


Digger,

What is a can and expansion module that you are referring to? If I understood you correctly, doing this route will prevent me from running wires from 2nd floor to basement. Fewer wires too.

Please let me know!

Thank you very much guys!

 

[Steve]

I noticed that I don't have magnet sensors in windows? Do I need them if I will be install glass break sensors?

I believe in perimeter security. You always want to stop the intruder at the earliest possible moment, especially before they access the inside of the house. Depending on the style of window there can be several methods of entry which means you most likely need several forms of protection. With only glass breaks, what if you accidently just leave a window open or unlocked, or a thief jimmies the lock open. The glass break alone would not help here and you will be at the mercy of your motion detectors after your house has been violated. So IMHO I think you need either contact sensors, vibration sensors or security screens (or combination) in addition to the glass breaks. Personally my single hung windows are protected by security screens at the bottom and vibration sensors (Sentrol 5150) at the top. This was how my original alarm system was setup. I am also going to add glass breaks and motions (for dual use). My $.02

BTW, this is a very informative thread and gave me some additional ideas - maybe it should be made sticky?

Also, any suggestions on water/flood sensors? Are there Caddx compatible wireless ones? Would be great to stick them under kitchen/bathroom sinks.

Edit: Found the Caddx NX-695 sensor, cool!

 

[toymaster458]

Thanks toymaster. About the motion sensor in the family room, is the new placement correct as long as I mount it in the corner? I have seen my friend's ADT and I see it almost touching the ceiling and corner? Is that how I should install it?

Depending on the motion sensor and the height of the ceiling depends on where it mounts

Or can you please modify the drawing so I know exactly where it should be? Please include the new motion sensor that you are mentioning(closet in hall, left of stairs).

Just put it above the closet point down towards the laundry room

The dining room ceiling is actually the floor of the loft. The height is 9ft. So top dining room window frame might be at 7.5-8 ft.

I am sorry I ment the Living room

Second floor, are you telling me to remove the glass break sensor in loft since it is very high and not a good access for burglars?

Yes

I also have a question about the motion sensor, am I correct that it's not a good idea to have it because we can't tell if my kids wakes up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom.

If you set the alarm in stay/night mode then the motion sensors do not activate the alarm

Thanks for the answers to the wirings. How many zones do you think my setup is needing?

Won't know untill you have all your senors picked out

Digger,

What is a can and expansion module that you are referring to? If I understood you correctly, doing this route will prevent me from running wires from 2nd floor to basement. Fewer wires too.

Please let me know!

Thank you very much guys!

My view on this is it is only needed in large installs or remote locations like barns. If you have the room with the main system keep it together. Otherwise if you put it in a attic or something, it could be hard to get to for troubleshoot. He is also going to have PVC chaseways to the attic so adding wires is no big deal on the second floor.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

I noticed that I don't have magnet sensors in windows? Do I need them if I will be install glass break sensors?

I believe in perimeter security. You always want to stop the intruder at the earliest possible moment, especially before they access the inside of the house. Depending on the style of window there can be several methods of entry which means you most likely need several forms of protection. With only glass breaks, what if you accidently just leave a window open or unlocked, or a thief jimmies the lock open. The glass break alone would not help here and you will be at the mercy of your motion detectors after your house has been violated. So IMHO I think you need either contact sensors, vibration sensors or security screens (or combination) in addition to the glass breaks. Personally my single hung windows are protected by security screens at the bottom and vibration sensors (Sentrol 5150) at the top. This was how my original alarm system was setup. I am also going to add glass breaks and motions (for dual use). My $.02

BTW, this is a very informative thread and gave me some additional ideas - maybe it should be made sticky?

Also, any suggestions on water/flood sensors? Are there Caddx compatible wireless ones? Would be great to stick them under kitchen/bathroom sinks.

Edit: Found the Caddx NX-695 sensor, cool!

Ok, then I need to run more wires to each windows in the first floor. From what I remember, contact sensors uses 22/2. Correct? Most of the windows(except family room) are all opened vertically then upwards. I'm afraid that If I drill a hole at the bottom of the window, water will enter during rain. Right now, there are no windows yet, just frames. I guess windows will be installed in June. I am so confused that if I put wires in the studs/frames for the window contacts and drywall has been installed, then the builder installs the windows, how will I be able to pull that wire? How would I know the exact point of drilling?

Question about the vibration or screen sensors you've mentioned, what wires to those use, is it 22/2 also?

Thanks for the inputs.