I am new to home automation and am just starting to examine all the possibilities. One thing that I would like to do would be to automate the bathtub in such a way that I could set a digital temperature and push a button and the tub would fill to that temperature with the correct amount of water. I have searched online but haven't really been able to find anything that looked like it would work well. Has anyone done anything like this?
Bath Automation
- Thread starter aerin44
- Start date
Possibly use a tankless water heater with a remote temperature adjustment?
I'd rather avoid additional water heaters if possible. I used them in Japan and although they work well I have a nice almost new traditional water heater that I would rather not replace. The thought I had was something with adjustable valves to mix the hot and cold to the proper temperature.
I found this:
http://www.armstronginternational.com/wate...wave-model-dmv3
But I'm not sure how I would control it.
I found this:
http://www.armstronginternational.com/wate...wave-model-dmv3
But I'm not sure how I would control it.
beelzerob
Senior Member
You're getting into fun stuff when it says "Contact for quote".... That translates as expensive, usually.
There's no interface on that to have external control...the control panel included would be used to control it exclusively.
Doesn't Elk offer some controllable household water valves? And if so, are those just full-open/full-closed control, or settings in between?
Of course, make sure you have a drain on the top of the tub, in case whatever you're controlling the water with "forgets" to turn it off....
There's no interface on that to have external control...the control panel included would be used to control it exclusively.
Doesn't Elk offer some controllable household water valves? And if so, are those just full-open/full-closed control, or settings in between?
Of course, make sure you have a drain on the top of the tub, in case whatever you're controlling the water with "forgets" to turn it off....
Kohler has the shower covered:
http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/b...bctid1243644342
You should contact Kohler, this may work with your bath as well.
http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/b...bctid1243644342
You should contact Kohler, this may work with your bath as well.
beelzerob
Senior Member
Man, she certainly seems to be enjoying the experience....
I was heading towards the original DTV (when it only controlled shower valves and was ONLY expensive), but it didn't do what I wanted (individual shower head control). I'm sure even the DTV2 won't do what you want for a bath, it's designed only to use their shower heads, and it doesn't incorporate anything like a "run for x minutes" feature. And it doesn't include any kind of external control (other than their controller), which I'm not sure, but I think the OP wanted that, right? Aerin, when you said "at the push of a button", did you mean through a home automation control (like a touchpad?), or is just through the system-supplied button ok? If so, then I think the controller you linked would do it for you.
beelzerob
Senior Member
Well, it might be beyond HA capabilities to make your own temp controlled aparatus...you'd need 2 controlled valves and a water temp sensor. The temp sensor is easy enough, but the ones I know about don't respond quick enough to be of use...the tub would be half full before it fine tuned the temperature right. And offhand I don't know of any controlled valves, except for irrigation and the Elk water shutoff valve.
It's a toughie! I'd say your best bet would be to contact the Armstrong inc people and ask them if there is some solution for a 3rd part interface, since they seem to offer the right hardware. There's SOME kind of data control line going from the control button to the valve.
I'm in a somewhat similar situation...we have a steam generator for our steam shower, and the control pad for it plugs into the generator via a simple RJ-11 connection. There's actually 2 connections there, for 2 controllers...but I was wondering if I couldn't plug my own connector in there and use the same signals. I'll contact them before I try anything, but I'm guessing they won't be any help...they'd much rather I just buy another controller from them!
It's a toughie! I'd say your best bet would be to contact the Armstrong inc people and ask them if there is some solution for a 3rd part interface, since they seem to offer the right hardware. There's SOME kind of data control line going from the control button to the valve.
I'm in a somewhat similar situation...we have a steam generator for our steam shower, and the control pad for it plugs into the generator via a simple RJ-11 connection. There's actually 2 connections there, for 2 controllers...but I was wondering if I couldn't plug my own connector in there and use the same signals. I'll contact them before I try anything, but I'm guessing they won't be any help...they'd much rather I just buy another controller from them!
tmbrown97
Senior Member
i second the look at Kohler's DTV products. When I first looked, they didn't have any apparent way to interface with a HA controller - but with the introduction of the Media Module, which also has ethernet ports - I have to wonder what all it can do. Unfortunately, I've only been looking at it for about a week, so I don't yet know what all it can do.
How cool would that be to have a wakeup routine where the lights slowly come up - then as the motion sensor sees you start to get moving, it starts the shower with your preferred temp and settings, and turns on your favorite XM station... As you get out of the shower, it announces the outside temperature and forecast, then you get ready for work - music throughout the house - but as you hit the Arm Away button on your elk, it turns off all non-essentials, sets the temp back, and arms the system... That's my eventual goal.
How cool would that be to have a wakeup routine where the lights slowly come up - then as the motion sensor sees you start to get moving, it starts the shower with your preferred temp and settings, and turns on your favorite XM station... As you get out of the shower, it announces the outside temperature and forecast, then you get ready for work - music throughout the house - but as you hit the Arm Away button on your elk, it turns off all non-essentials, sets the temp back, and arms the system... That's my eventual goal.
Aerin,
I have actually done this in a clients home, for my previous employer. We built up a"relay logic" controller and used x10 signals. The faucets were left open to the temp setting desired and electric valves were used to open the hot and cold. The owner could call in and have the bath start filling up(it was a two seater, with jacuzi jets that took about 15 minutes to fill) or a button near the bath could be pressed or a touchscreen downstairs could activate it.
We also installed a large valve on the drain to automaticly drain the tub after about 2 hours.
The logic was setup so that the tub would only fill once until the drain had been opened. We were lucky the drain was in a 2 ft thick void in the wall above a fireplace(behind a plasma screen) otherwise the drain valve could have been a problem.
A funny thing happend (maybe not so funny) a year later when the company I was working for tried to sell the same install through one of it's dealers. The dealer orderd the control box and all the valves and then informed us that the tub was on a slab.... no room for the drain valve.
but I ramble on.....
Dave
Dave,
Do you happen to remember approximately how much the parts cost for the system your company did? The DTV one looks nice, but at US$4500 for parts alone it is a bit more than I was intending to spend.
I just found this one:
http://www.shower-warehouse.co.uk/erol.html#704X940
Although it wouldn't link directly to an HA system, it can be controlled by infrared remote. I believe there are HA components that will relay IR signals.
Aerin
Do you happen to remember approximately how much the parts cost for the system your company did? The DTV one looks nice, but at US$4500 for parts alone it is a bit more than I was intending to spend.
I just found this one:
http://www.shower-warehouse.co.uk/erol.html#704X940
Although it wouldn't link directly to an HA system, it can be controlled by infrared remote. I believe there are HA components that will relay IR signals.
Aerin
Aerin,
I beleive the parts would run around $500 to $700, (just a guess) By the way the product you found above has programmable buttons. Most things with buttons can be "Hacked" into your automation system. This will void any warrenty it might have.
Dave
-->QUOTE(Todd B @ Jul 8 2008, 01:01 AM) [post="92017"][/post]i second the look at Kohler's DTV products. When I first looked, they didn't have any apparent way to interface with a HA controller - but with the introduction of the Media Module, which also has ethernet ports - I have to wonder what all it can do. Unfortunately, I've only been looking at it for about a week, so I don't yet know what all it can do.
How cool would that be to have a wakeup routine where the lights slowly come up - then as the motion sensor sees you start to get moving, it starts the shower with your preferred temp and settings, and turns on your favorite XM station... As you get out of the shower, it announces the outside temperature and forecast, then you get ready for work - music throughout the house - but as you hit the Arm Away button on your elk, it turns off all non-essentials, sets the temp back, and arms the system... That's my eventual goal.[/quote]
I can see the problems, with the shower running when ever you get out of bed, even if you dont want a shower.
I think you should have the shower run when you tell you home system "Shower Please".
drozwood90
Senior Member
Dave,
How did you tell the system to stop filling the water, so it would not over flow?
--Dan
smcdonal
Member
Aerin,
It is interesting that you mention Japan as I've seen this in practically all the modern homes I've been to in Japan (minus the central automation). I would guess there are products there that would be cheaper due to demand and better, again due to the much larger market for such things. I'm not sure if that is an option for you though. I think the biggest problem would be temperature control, not just of the water filling the tub, but the subsequent maintenance of that temperature until you hopped into the bath. This would imply some sort of temperature controlled recirculation system. Sorry I'm not being much help but I believe if you are looking for something nice yet cheap, shop where there is a higher demand for such things. I believe the baths in Japan had a separate inlet valve in the tub for filling with a full sensor to ensure the bath did not overflow. I'm pretty sure the drain was manual so you had to remember to close it. The bath was set to fill at a certain time of day and typically left covered to keep the heat and humidity in the bathtub and the recirculation system maintained the temperature until you got home from work for your nightly bath.
I could ask some people in Japan I know for pointers if you are interested. Personally, I'd start with Toto as they are a Japanese company yet have a presence in N. America. I did find the N. American pricing quite high though relative to equivalent products in Japan.
I'd be curious what you eventually end up doing though!
Stephen
It is interesting that you mention Japan as I've seen this in practically all the modern homes I've been to in Japan (minus the central automation). I would guess there are products there that would be cheaper due to demand and better, again due to the much larger market for such things. I'm not sure if that is an option for you though. I think the biggest problem would be temperature control, not just of the water filling the tub, but the subsequent maintenance of that temperature until you hopped into the bath. This would imply some sort of temperature controlled recirculation system. Sorry I'm not being much help but I believe if you are looking for something nice yet cheap, shop where there is a higher demand for such things. I believe the baths in Japan had a separate inlet valve in the tub for filling with a full sensor to ensure the bath did not overflow. I'm pretty sure the drain was manual so you had to remember to close it. The bath was set to fill at a certain time of day and typically left covered to keep the heat and humidity in the bathtub and the recirculation system maintained the temperature until you got home from work for your nightly bath.
I could ask some people in Japan I know for pointers if you are interested. Personally, I'd start with Toto as they are a Japanese company yet have a presence in N. America. I did find the N. American pricing quite high though relative to equivalent products in Japan.
I'd be curious what you eventually end up doing though!
Stephen
