Blinds/Shutters control with M1

cezar_oz

Member
This may be stretching it a bit perhaps, however -


Is it possible to control window sliding shutters (or blinds) using M1 only (i.e. without Clipsal, etc)?


Cheers.
 
I looked at Somfy 12 volt window blind motors.
I think it could be done easily with relays and a power source.
Somfy has other options also, including RS232 control.
 
What are sliding shutters?

Vertical blinds? Horizontal blinds?

Whatever you have, it needs to possess a motor. The motor CAN be controlled by relays, but it would be easier if you bought new shutters, or blinds, that contain motors, with a proprietary controller made specifically for those motors/blinds/drapes (Somfy is one of the most common). The controller can then communicate with the M1 in a more 'out of the box' fashion.

I spent a lot of time researching methods to automate my shutters (horizontal, 'plantation'). Adding a motor is not really feasible for horizontal plantation shutters - I'd have to replace the shutters with ones that are motorized. Adding a motor to horizontal blinds or curtains is pretty easy, and new motorized blinds aren't that expensive. Replacing my plantation shutters is too expensive, for me, at this point.

If you choose to add a motors, it would be easier to control them with a microcontroller, than trying to do it with relays and stop sensors. I'd use the Arduino open-source microcontroller - AnthonyZ was playing around with one back in January. The Arduino (and similar) microcontrollers have servo motor programming 'built in', or the code is freely available online. The Elk Magic Module microcontroller, I think, could also be used, but I don't know how to interface it with the M1.

Some pics of your blind/shutter type would be useful.
 
I could be wrong, but I thought the Somfy models I was looking at were driven by 12 volts forward. They would run to an internal cutoff that was settable and stop. Then a reverse voltage would drive them to the opposite stop.
If you wanted a half up point, you remove the voltage at the point you desire. I thought the internal motors were step motors so if you commanded several to start, then stop at the same instant, The rate would appear coordinated and stop at nearly the same point.
 
This may be stretching it a bit perhaps, however -


Is it possible to control window sliding shutters (or blinds) using M1 only (i.e. without Clipsal, etc)?


Cheers.

I don't have any knowledge of the M-1, but I do know a fair amount about motorized blinds, shutters, and the like as we are a dealer that specializes in motorized and remote control window covering products, including black out for home theaters.

You haven't provided near enough information to obtain anywhere near a good answer.

What type and brand blinds and shutters do you have?
What is the voltage of the motors?
What sort of control do the motors have now?
What do the controls want to see in terms of control from your M-1? There is RF, IR, and almost always momentary switch contact control. Not to mention RS-232.

Several good suggestions have already been made. The best approach is to purchase products already motorized, though some retrofitting can be done. Then, all you have to worry about is hitting them with the right control choice.

I might mention that there are products with all voltages, 12v, 24v. and 110v, and controls for each are available.

Believe me, some of the decorators we work with can come up with some impossible issues for us to solve, but most are solvable if the budget doesn't run out too soon.
 
This may be stretching it a bit perhaps, however -


Is it possible to control window sliding shutters (or blinds) using M1 only (i.e. without Clipsal, etc)?


Cheers.

I don't have any knowledge of the M-1, but I do know a fair amount about motorized blinds, shutters, and the like as we are a dealer that specializes in motorized and remote control window covering products, including black out for home theaters.

You haven't provided near enough information to obtain anywhere near a good answer.

What type and brand blinds and shutters do you have?
What is the voltage of the motors?
What sort of control do the motors have now?
What do the controls want to see in terms of control from your M-1? There is RF, IR, and almost always momentary switch contact control. Not to mention RS-232.

Several good suggestions have already been made. The best approach is to purchase products already motorized, though some retrofitting can be done. Then, all you have to worry about is hitting them with the right control choice.

I might mention that there are products with all voltages, 12v, 24v. and 110v, and controls for each are available.

Believe me, some of the decorators we work with can come up with some impossible issues for us to solve, but most are solvable if the budget doesn't run out too soon.

Thanks for all the thoughts.

This is a brand new install and I'm leaning towards getting Somfy (or equivalent product) blinds installed together with their own motors and then look at either controlling them via a relay or RS232, whichever is easier. I think M1 can do either
 
Yes, the M1 can do it instead of using Clipsal.

There is a BUT though

The M1 relay boards are not rated for 240VAC, so if you are using 240VAC blind motors and you want to use the M1, then you will need cheap follower relays that are rated for 240VAC. This will allow you to use what ever voltage you want on the M1 relays (12V, 24V, 110V).

If you are switching the motors directly (i.e. no controller), then you need to have interlocking. hardware interlocking is much better than software. Fortunately, the M1 relays are change over and this can be done very easily.

There is also an issue of time delay between changing direction. Motors do not like to be switch back and forward instantly, there should be a 0.5sec delay to prevent damage.

If you want to use the M1, look for a motor that uses a "controller" of sorts that will take care of all of this for you. This may be built in or it may be separate.

Also, since you mentioned Clipsal, take a look at the C-Bus forums and search on blind control. You will find a wealth of information (diagrams on hardware interlocking with CO relays etc.) there on best practices - some of it from the blind industry itself.

Mick
 
Yes, the M1 can do it instead of using Clipsal.

There is a BUT though

The M1 relay boards are not rated for 240VAC, so if you are using 240VAC blind motors and you want to use the M1, then you will need cheap follower relays that are rated for 240VAC. This will allow you to use what ever voltage you want on the M1 relays (12V, 24V, 110V).

If you are switching the motors directly (i.e. no controller), then you need to have interlocking. hardware interlocking is much better than software. Fortunately, the M1 relays are change over and this can be done very easily.

There is also an issue of time delay between changing direction. Motors do not like to be switch back and forward instantly, there should be a 0.5sec delay to prevent damage.

If you want to use the M1, look for a motor that uses a "controller" of sorts that will take care of all of this for you. This may be built in or it may be separate.

Also, since you mentioned Clipsal, take a look at the C-Bus forums and search on blind control. You will find a wealth of information (diagrams on hardware interlocking with CO relays etc.) there on best practices - some of it from the blind industry itself.

Mick
 
This may not be the best point for this post, so please steer me right if needed.

I am putting in a Lutron motorized blind system. 13 shades, 8x8 ft. Hunter-Douglas SAID they could do it, but is having to eat their words and give me a refund...

I was working on the controls through HAL/Cinemar using relays supplied by an outfit in Toronto who were subcontracted to H-D. They seemed to work but with limited functionality.

I have an ELK M1 Gold as a secutiy system. The motion sensors will be used as occupancy sensors in the HAL/Cinemar /UPB system. I hadn't thought of using the ELK to control the blinds, although I am getting the ELK UPB interface.

HAL/Cinemar can open and close them according to schedules and I am getting the thermostat to modulate the schedule based on temperature if necessary..

Any experience/suggestions?

bob
 
With Somfy or Lutron you are safe. They both offer excellent documented RS232 and dry-contact interfaces. Both tend to be supported by a wide range of automation products (amx, crestron, etc.) I’ve worked more with Somfy but both offer great reliable hardware. Lutron tends to be more expensive when doing a side-by-side product comparison but you can't go wrong with either.
 
Thanks for the encouragement, Bryan.
The HAL/Cinemar system can open and close relays, which is what I assume is meant by dry contacts.
Is there an interface with the Lutron control system? Can HAL/Cinemar learn the commands and be used instead?

bob
 
Thanks for the encouragement, Bryan.
The HAL/Cinemar system can open and close relays, which is what I assume is meant by dry contacts.
Is there an interface with the Lutron control system? Can HAL/Cinemar learn the commands and be used instead?

bob

If possible, I would suggest RS232 for both solutions. HAL/Cinemar could easily control the RS232 interfaces from Lutron or Somfy. Very basic RS232 commands that could be programmed by even a novice. Although Cinemar already has a Somfy RS232 driver available, which makes life easier.

Relays would work as well, just not as elegant.
 
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