Can someone please give m a quick explanation of how an "ELK" system integrates with a HA system.
- Thread starter ghurty
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Dean Roddey
Senior Member
Our customers typically use the Elk for security and will generally run the most fundamental bits through the Elk (HVAC and Lighting), and of course it can provide various types of I/O for sensors and such. Then they layer CQC over the top of the Elk. CQC can get to those other bits via the Elk, and then provide the sexy touch screens, media management, control over all the stuff the Elk doesn't handle (home theater, multi-zone audio, media devices, etc...) and things like weather data, traffic cams, much fancier text to speech, and so forth. And they often use CQC for higher level logic, which is a lot easier in some cases to set up in our system than in the Elk.
So an M1/Omni plus something like CQC makes for a nice combination. CQC could directly interface to all those things, and some people do it that way as well, adding in a security panel to replace the seucirty aspects of the M1/Omni. But, if you are going to end up needing a fair bit of digital/analog I/O, you have to provide that somehow and these types of boxes do that, and they provide security. So a fair number of people go that route.
So an M1/Omni plus something like CQC makes for a nice combination. CQC could directly interface to all those things, and some people do it that way as well, adding in a security panel to replace the seucirty aspects of the M1/Omni. But, if you are going to end up needing a fair bit of digital/analog I/O, you have to provide that somehow and these types of boxes do that, and they provide security. So a fair number of people go that route.
AlexCuster
Member
Your Insteon devices would be connected to the ELK via the ISY. This will allow you to control your lights from the ELK to create more advances or cross-system rules (ex. flashing the lights when the alarm is tripped).
CQC can be used in conjunction with ELK and Insteon to give you more control of displays, as well as some other cool features that ELK does not natively have.
CQC can be used in conjunction with ELK and Insteon to give you more control of displays, as well as some other cool features that ELK does not natively have.
pete_c
Guru
Both the Elk and the HAI systems could be considered something like security panels on steroids. Both have the ability to do more than the basic security functions. IE: powerline (wired or wireless) type stuff, audio, etc.
I use my HAI OPII system with my software HA system. The panel is connected to an X10, UPB and Z-Wave PIM along with a Russound zoned amplifier. The Homeseer server also has multiple PIM's doing similiar. The HA software uses the hardwired connection to the alarm panel to run some more complex events; say like talking to the internet, camera security server, hard wired PIR's, etc to drive very specific events. I have both HAI and Homeseer Touchscreens.
Like: (not a real event; just an example).
Rainy day, 1" of rain, 2nd monday of the month, PIR in hallway is triggered, deck PIR is triggered creates a specific event; email received; creates one events that utilizes both devices (HAI OPII and Homeseer server). Theoretically you could do the event on the panel or the software by itelf. The newest HA software does much these days and is very flexible; where as the hardware is flexible within some limits.
My HAI OPII panel talks and so does my Homeseer server. With the Homeseer server though I run multiple speech fonts uses different voices at different times. I also run one touch screen that only talks TTS french and another that talks TTS portuguese. (to bug my wife).
The Homeseer server does a CNN screen scrape every 5 minutes and will alert the house / text / email should a news alert occur. My touchscreens switch to a front door video cam should a delivery occur or should someone ring the doorbell.
The HAI OPII panel utilizes outdoor PIR's to drive multiple events say at 3AM should motion occur outside; also triggering video. I have nice video recordings of a coyote walking around.
You can run an Elk / HAI as a pure HA hardware device and not utilize the security features and it'll do fine. There is still no real (getting close though) competition for these two products. I believe too when dealing with life saftey "stuff" you are better off with hardware versus a running application; but then again software could be embedded linux these days verus an windows application.
I use my HAI OPII system with my software HA system. The panel is connected to an X10, UPB and Z-Wave PIM along with a Russound zoned amplifier. The Homeseer server also has multiple PIM's doing similiar. The HA software uses the hardwired connection to the alarm panel to run some more complex events; say like talking to the internet, camera security server, hard wired PIR's, etc to drive very specific events. I have both HAI and Homeseer Touchscreens.
Like: (not a real event; just an example).
Rainy day, 1" of rain, 2nd monday of the month, PIR in hallway is triggered, deck PIR is triggered creates a specific event; email received; creates one events that utilizes both devices (HAI OPII and Homeseer server). Theoretically you could do the event on the panel or the software by itelf. The newest HA software does much these days and is very flexible; where as the hardware is flexible within some limits.
My HAI OPII panel talks and so does my Homeseer server. With the Homeseer server though I run multiple speech fonts uses different voices at different times. I also run one touch screen that only talks TTS french and another that talks TTS portuguese. (to bug my wife).
The Homeseer server does a CNN screen scrape every 5 minutes and will alert the house / text / email should a news alert occur. My touchscreens switch to a front door video cam should a delivery occur or should someone ring the doorbell.
The HAI OPII panel utilizes outdoor PIR's to drive multiple events say at 3AM should motion occur outside; also triggering video. I have nice video recordings of a coyote walking around.
You can run an Elk / HAI as a pure HA hardware device and not utilize the security features and it'll do fine. There is still no real (getting close though) competition for these two products. I believe too when dealing with life saftey "stuff" you are better off with hardware versus a running application; but then again software could be embedded linux these days verus an windows application.
tmbrown97
Senior Member
I'm not as close to the industry as others, but the GE and DSC panels are adding in more automation; and Honeywell is supposedly about to announce some interesting new products - but from what I've seen most of those expect to tie into a Control4 or similar system... Time will tell - but for now, it's nice to work with something that people have been using for years and can help with.
In my house, the Elk does all the mission critical things - and the things it doesn't do as well are in Elve - like: touchscreens; some rules; UPB control (actually have UPB in both but Elve does a good job tracking status; Elk doesn't); and my W800RF32 X10 to UPB bridge is on Elve. Everything else is handled mainly by the Elk so that, if the HA PC goes down, life is pretty much unaffected.
In my house, the Elk does all the mission critical things - and the things it doesn't do as well are in Elve - like: touchscreens; some rules; UPB control (actually have UPB in both but Elve does a good job tracking status; Elk doesn't); and my W800RF32 X10 to UPB bridge is on Elve. Everything else is handled mainly by the Elk so that, if the HA PC goes down, life is pretty much unaffected.
I like what I've seen from Elve and will probably go that route as well. For the HA PC ... is it typical for most to install some form of IP-based remote boot card? It's been a while since I've tinkered with this side of a PC, but I've installed them in remote office's servers a while back ... worked pretty well. Maybe they're commonplace in today's home server hardware?
tmbrown97
Senior Member
That way works - but honestly I'll bet you most people just run a PC that they set up correctly in one place, then move to the closet and just don't hook up a keyboard/monitor - unless there's a problem... and remote in using RDP the rest of the time (I've been doing that for many years with all kinds of servers and utility machines).
In my case, it's running on my HP MediaSmart Windows Home Server - which is a headless server anyways (no keyboard or video ports) - and it's been doing just fine.
An IP KVM is fun, but few spend the money.
In my case, it's running on my HP MediaSmart Windows Home Server - which is a headless server anyways (no keyboard or video ports) - and it's been doing just fine.
An IP KVM is fun, but few spend the money.
Yeah, I will use RDP as well. My question on the remote access nic was directed at being able to remotely boot/reboot the HA system if/when it hangs or doesn't power up after an outage ... hence the HA functionality no longer works. I guess the real issue is to not rely on the HA system for any 'must have' automation, but rather relegate it for all the convenience automation.
Later
Later
tmbrown97
Senior Member
I think that's a common philosophy for many - let the hardware panel handle the mission critical stuff and let the HA app/computer run the rest.
I know the server world where there are iLO cards and DRAC cards for server reboots - but for simple power resets, there are plenty of power strips around that can be accessed over the internet and power can be switched off/on for individual outlets - that might accomplish what you're after. These are around $120.
For me, I just walk into the closet and press the button... not that I've ever really had to since the HP WHS is pretty reliable.
I know the server world where there are iLO cards and DRAC cards for server reboots - but for simple power resets, there are plenty of power strips around that can be accessed over the internet and power can be switched off/on for individual outlets - that might accomplish what you're after. These are around $120.
For me, I just walk into the closet and press the button... not that I've ever really had to since the HP WHS is pretty reliable.
I am a bit late on this topic, but having been playing with a server motherboard at work that has IPMI 2.0. You can remotely log into the machine and control any of the power on/off functions as if you were standing next to it. You can also load CD/DVDs or Floppies even if the machine doesn't have one. Besides plugging in an ethernet cord and power cords and setting the IPMI IP address, I have setup machines without being close to them. IPMI 2.0 and KVM over IP comes on a lot of newish server motherboards and only really adds a small premium for the features. I believe it is much cheaper than getting addon cards (though I never priced out an addon). I am using a Supermicro X8DTH-6F now in case you were looking for an example.
tmbrown97
Senior Member
Dan also reviewed some new intel boards that'll have VNC integrated at the motherboard level while at CEDIA that let you mount local volumes, reboot, manage BIOS, etc... All remotely. I believe many of those features are based on the updated IPMI as mentioned... Very cool to get that kind of remote management on a regular desktop! Check out Dan's CEDIA videos and look for his VNC review.
