Ceiling Speakers with or without back boxes?
- Thread starter bobr
- Start date
Sacedog
Active Member
I think it would depend on how much space you had above the speakers. If you are installing them into a ceiling that has a 2nd floor above it, you probably do not need to. If you have a ton of attic space above that room however, you might want to consider it.
I installed a few sets of Klipsch Reference series speakers in my last house, in rooms that had a floor above them. I simply took some insulation batts to fill between the Silent Floor, on both sides of each speaker. They sounded fantastic!
politics123
Active Member
They are engineered to be in space, but it probably would help. You don't need anything fancy... for my in-ceiling speakers (mind you, engineered wood I-Beams and a 2nd floor on top), I just cut out some 1/4 plywood and stapled it between the engineered beams. Might have cost me ~15 minutes per speaker and a sheet of plywood.
shenandoah75
Active Member
Well i just installed a pair of 6.5"s in my dining room tonight I packed each cavity betwee the joists with (4) squares of R-13 insulation... I too was thinking backerboxes originally, but reading the Polk's manuals and others that they are deisgned for open / infinite baffles, i'd figure i'd give it a shot and am not disappointed. The audiosource manual actaully recommended the insulation approach as did IVB/Wayne.
My wife and i were both pretty impressed - especially how the whole house audio / background listening we'll be doing. The setup lacks low end punch - but i don't think you'll find that in a 6.5 rated at 45-20K, but i'm trying to figure out where to put a sub to address that. An in-wall off the equipment closet would be sweet, but pricey.
-brad
My wife and i were both pretty impressed - especially how the whole house audio / background listening we'll be doing. The setup lacks low end punch - but i don't think you'll find that in a 6.5 rated at 45-20K, but i'm trying to figure out where to put a sub to address that. An in-wall off the equipment closet would be sweet, but pricey.
-brad
Even with lots of insulation and sound proofing, you might still get lots of sound directly in the room above the speaker. That's what I found out. Not usually an issue, until a good party tune comes on... The volume goes up... And it can heard in the room above... Where someone is trying to sleep... usually a kid.
Thanks for the good inputs.
I have used back boxes for a few speakers recently, but the cost does add up. It does make it easier to cut the hole for the speaker with a roto zip though.
I tried it without back boxes for the same model of speakers just recently, and i think i agree with the person who said the the low end is a bit mushy, but not easy to tell.
My brother suggested that using hvac duct board to make the back boxes would be cheap, easy and help to keep the house air tight(we live in FL).
Bob
I have used back boxes for a few speakers recently, but the cost does add up. It does make it easier to cut the hole for the speaker with a roto zip though.
I tried it without back boxes for the same model of speakers just recently, and i think i agree with the person who said the the low end is a bit mushy, but not easy to tell.
My brother suggested that using hvac duct board to make the back boxes would be cheap, easy and help to keep the house air tight(we live in FL).
Bob
I found that if I run the in-ceilings I have (NHTs) in full-range mode, the air they move is a problem - they affect each other and you can feel the air venting in other places. Since I typically run them clipped on the low end, it's not a problem. If I were looking for full-range, I would absolutely get a box around them. I have built my own boxes in the past that worked VERY well. MDF, a table-saw, wood glue, screws and some calculations based on the driver information is all it takes for basic box that sounds great.
Sorry, I don't have any pictures. I gave away all the ones I've built years ago.
I've built a few of them in the past, though. I used to have a book (as in paper) called the "Loudspeaker Cookbook" that I studied before building my first set. Understanding how to match the drivers to the enclosure, what type of enclosure to use, what cross-overs to build, and all that jazz was really useful. I built some pretty fancy (and loud - a high priority for me at that stage of my life) speakers for the "cheap-o" budget I had at the time.
The learning gave me the confidence to believe that I could build a hideously ugly but good-sounding loudspeaker without spending much (I'm not much of a finish carpenter). For in-ceilings, that's not a problem.
The gist of it is simple: ideally, match the enclosure size to the appropriate volume for the driver to perform at the optimal range you're seeking (often indexed by the low-end of the sound and sometimes also by the resonant frequencies). There's many more complicated elements, but that's the simplest. Even below that level of complexity, "a little bigger box is usually better" is a good rule of thumb for low-end (bass) and it can be damped down with various cheap stuffing (damping material) if necessary.
Once size is established (standard non-vented enclosures are simplest and typically lowest volume, thus easier to place out of sight), MDF (medium-density-fiberboard) is essential because it is more solid. A table saw is essential for perfect fits. Pre-drilling for thin screws (#6 or less) keeps the fits perfect. Wood glue is what actually holds the box together; the screws just get it snug while it dries. That's it.
I've done sub-only, bass / mid / high, mid-bass / high, and mid-bass-only enclosures; they all had strengths and weaknesses. I've done closed, ported, and a couple of (not so successful) multi-pass boxes. I've isolated highs or not. I've placed passive cross-overs inside the box or out. I used to have crates of spare parts and would just cobble together whatever I was looking for. The financial factor was amazing - inexpensive drivers can sound pretty good when only asked to produce a limited set of frequencies (cross-over config) and given the exact appropriate environment in which to do it.
Now, I'm spoiled. I have Thiel 3.6s as mains and use NHT in-ceilings for surround. I'm running some Axiom M3s ceiling-hung in my bedroom. They all look MUCH nicer than any box I ever built.
I've built a few of them in the past, though. I used to have a book (as in paper) called the "Loudspeaker Cookbook" that I studied before building my first set. Understanding how to match the drivers to the enclosure, what type of enclosure to use, what cross-overs to build, and all that jazz was really useful. I built some pretty fancy (and loud - a high priority for me at that stage of my life) speakers for the "cheap-o" budget I had at the time.
The learning gave me the confidence to believe that I could build a hideously ugly but good-sounding loudspeaker without spending much (I'm not much of a finish carpenter). For in-ceilings, that's not a problem.
The gist of it is simple: ideally, match the enclosure size to the appropriate volume for the driver to perform at the optimal range you're seeking (often indexed by the low-end of the sound and sometimes also by the resonant frequencies). There's many more complicated elements, but that's the simplest. Even below that level of complexity, "a little bigger box is usually better" is a good rule of thumb for low-end (bass) and it can be damped down with various cheap stuffing (damping material) if necessary.
Once size is established (standard non-vented enclosures are simplest and typically lowest volume, thus easier to place out of sight), MDF (medium-density-fiberboard) is essential because it is more solid. A table saw is essential for perfect fits. Pre-drilling for thin screws (#6 or less) keeps the fits perfect. Wood glue is what actually holds the box together; the screws just get it snug while it dries. That's it.
I've done sub-only, bass / mid / high, mid-bass / high, and mid-bass-only enclosures; they all had strengths and weaknesses. I've done closed, ported, and a couple of (not so successful) multi-pass boxes. I've isolated highs or not. I've placed passive cross-overs inside the box or out. I used to have crates of spare parts and would just cobble together whatever I was looking for. The financial factor was amazing - inexpensive drivers can sound pretty good when only asked to produce a limited set of frequencies (cross-over config) and given the exact appropriate environment in which to do it.
Now, I'm spoiled. I have Thiel 3.6s as mains and use NHT in-ceilings for surround. I'm running some Axiom M3s ceiling-hung in my bedroom. They all look MUCH nicer than any box I ever built.
Similar threads
