CocoonTech 2.0 has arrived!
- Thread starter electron
- Start date
123
Senior Member
Generally speaking, the recent changes are welcome and the tiered pricing structure was inevitable. The vast majority of Cocooners probably don't need any of the Silver/Gold/Platinum advantages (larger attachment size, more PMs, etc) so its business as usual for most of the community and they can continue to use Cocoontech for free. There's rarely a need to post more than 100K/message.
Unfortunately, for the Premise users that migrated from Yahoo Groups to Cocoontech, the pricing structure amounts to a developer tax. Premise users, like myself, represent the few Cocooners who post large attachments (in the Downloads forum). These attachments are documented drivers and applications and developing them takes time and effort. For this expenditure of energy, Premise users charge nothing. Having to pay $100/year for the privilege of posting one's work, which generates no revenue itself, is an extremely unattractive proposal.
The natural reaction to this new arrangement will be what has already started, namely that the files are posted elsewhere with only links appearing here. That's a shame because it loses the benefits of a having a central repository.
Unfortunately, for the Premise users that migrated from Yahoo Groups to Cocoontech, the pricing structure amounts to a developer tax. Premise users, like myself, represent the few Cocooners who post large attachments (in the Downloads forum). These attachments are documented drivers and applications and developing them takes time and effort. For this expenditure of energy, Premise users charge nothing. Having to pay $100/year for the privilege of posting one's work, which generates no revenue itself, is an extremely unattractive proposal.
The natural reaction to this new arrangement will be what has already started, namely that the files are posted elsewhere with only links appearing here. That's a shame because it loses the benefits of a having a central repository.
As I have mentioned to one of the Premise users (and I believe he posted my response in the public Premise forum), I am working on another solution to manage these kind of files. Drivers and such don't belong in forum attachments, as they are hard to locate, and add many other issues. You can host the files wherever you want, but as I mentioned before, I am working on a better solution which will be online soon.
IVB
Senior Member
yeah, i know i've saved far far far far more than $100. Hell, on the "should I DIY or hire a pro" 2 years ago, when I decided to self-install the Elk instead of paying $2K to ADT.
Although, I have spent $4K at AutomatedOutlet, perhaps that ADT deal would have been better, even if I only got 1/10th of my current functionality
Steve
Senior Member
You are right, most people don't need any of the subscription benefits. But, IMHO they are just 'fluff' anyway. This forum has been absolutely free for many years with Dan not only paying the costs out of his own pocket, but also spending boatloads of his personal time managing and enhancing the forums. Many of us have been encouraging Dan to charge for the vast amount of knowledge gained on these forums, just like many of us pay for other specialized forums (some auto forums come to mind). But still, as you stated, for the majority this site will remain free. Contributions/subscriptions are 100% voluntary. Those of us that subscribe do so to help Dan defray some of the personal costs he incurs every single month, not so we get more upload space or other stuff. WRT to the downloads/drivers, I'm sure Dan will come up with a good solution, but do you really expect Dan to fund the 'unlimited' space required out of pocket? There are plenty of other storage solutions even if Dan did not work something out. You are right, development takes time and effort. In that regard CocoonTech is a 'development' effort and besides the hard costs to host a VPS why shouldn't Dan be entitled to something for his time as well?
Anyway, I'm babbling. I know you are a major contributor and we all appreciate it, its just that this post came off as a 'complaint' and it kind of bugged me. I'm sure you didn't intend it that way. Anyway, I'm sure all the details will work out for everyone.
BraveSirRobbin
Moderator
123:
I’ve read your post and am quite surprised at its tone. I was expecting some rebuttal on membership pricing, but wasn’t expecting this kind of response.
Premise is a dead program. It’s not supported by Motorola (they even stopped making the files available for a short time) and it seems they have no future intention of supporting it.
The small user base that does exist gets support only from individuals that are members of home automation forums such as CocoonTech. Dan and I pondered over your request for a dedicated Premise forum and have decided that it would serve some of our members well.
We did this without cost to the (Premise) membership and even endured the growing pains of seeing a plethora of new Premise related postings whenever the “new posts” button was pressed (by our general membership).
Only a very small amount of our nearly 5,000 members are Premise users, yet they have their own dedicated forum.
Considering that increased publicity via a forum user base is the ONLY means by which Premise will become a community supported product it seems to me that having this free dedicated forum would be the single greatest advancement for the cause, especially due to CocoonTech’s increased popularity.
Also, Dan just recently stated that he is trying to find a solution for hosting the files, and will perform this investigative effort just for the Premise forum!
What did we get in return for this support effort? Words like “Amounts to a developer tax”, “Having to pay $100/year for the privilege of posting one's work” and “an extremely unattractive proposal”.
The staff of CocoonTech remains dedicated to all campaigns related to home automation, security and theater and will continue to serve our membership with the best support efforts possible. The release of CocoonTech 2 (which we are very proud of) stands as proof of these efforts and commitments. I'm truly sorry that you are not happy with our latest endeavors.
Kindest regards,
BSR, CocoonTech Moderator
123
Senior Member
BSR, Dan,
My post appears to have offended you deeply and that was never my intent. I am happy with CT2.0. You've done a superlative job and I'm happy to be an active member of this community. My remarks indicated the subscription plan affects Premise developers in a way you may not have foreseen.
I have no complaint regarding your decision to implement a tiered subscription scheme. It is your right to run your business the way you see fit. There's nothing unduly onerous about the structure and the rates except for how it affects a tiny minority of this community.
My post stated the obvious; most subscribers can continue to participate for free. The few that have a need for the benefits of Silver/Gold/Platinum status can pay for it. In fact, they may not require the additional features but may wish to contribute as a gesture of their appreciation. They are free to contribute whatever sum they wish, including an amount greater than Platinum status. Your hard work is greatly appreciated and the community should have a means of compensating you for your efforts.
The few subscribers that do need to post larger files, like Premise developers, are now obliged to pay $100 for that right. Yes, we are a tiny fraction of the Cocoontech community. So tiny that all of our attachments, put together, would occupy a remote corner of a thumb-drive. Being such a small community, it is unlikely our collective output would ever tax your resources.
So what was once free now costs $100 annually. If 'developer tax' is hurtful, then call it an 'admission fee' or 'cover charge'. Either way, a Premise developer must now pay to share free software and, like it or not, that is an unattractive proposal. I'm not complaining about your efforts, which are appreciated, nor the tremendous improvements you've made with CT 2.0. It is a simple statement of fact that it's a tough sell to get a software developer to pay money to distribute a free product. I know you didn't design the subscription to have this effect, but there it is.
I did read Dan's post and assumed, incorrectly, that his solution was CT 2.0's subscription system. If he has something else in mind, then I eagerly await his ideas. The simplest solution is for us to post attachments elsewhere and provide links here. This is not an optimal arrangement because it scatters the drivers and applications; however, it entails no costs to distribute free software.
Best wishes,
123
My post appears to have offended you deeply and that was never my intent. I am happy with CT2.0. You've done a superlative job and I'm happy to be an active member of this community. My remarks indicated the subscription plan affects Premise developers in a way you may not have foreseen.
I have no complaint regarding your decision to implement a tiered subscription scheme. It is your right to run your business the way you see fit. There's nothing unduly onerous about the structure and the rates except for how it affects a tiny minority of this community.
My post stated the obvious; most subscribers can continue to participate for free. The few that have a need for the benefits of Silver/Gold/Platinum status can pay for it. In fact, they may not require the additional features but may wish to contribute as a gesture of their appreciation. They are free to contribute whatever sum they wish, including an amount greater than Platinum status. Your hard work is greatly appreciated and the community should have a means of compensating you for your efforts.
The few subscribers that do need to post larger files, like Premise developers, are now obliged to pay $100 for that right. Yes, we are a tiny fraction of the Cocoontech community. So tiny that all of our attachments, put together, would occupy a remote corner of a thumb-drive. Being such a small community, it is unlikely our collective output would ever tax your resources.
So what was once free now costs $100 annually. If 'developer tax' is hurtful, then call it an 'admission fee' or 'cover charge'. Either way, a Premise developer must now pay to share free software and, like it or not, that is an unattractive proposal. I'm not complaining about your efforts, which are appreciated, nor the tremendous improvements you've made with CT 2.0. It is a simple statement of fact that it's a tough sell to get a software developer to pay money to distribute a free product. I know you didn't design the subscription to have this effect, but there it is.
I did read Dan's post and assumed, incorrectly, that his solution was CT 2.0's subscription system. If he has something else in mind, then I eagerly await his ideas. The simplest solution is for us to post attachments elsewhere and provide links here. This is not an optimal arrangement because it scatters the drivers and applications; however, it entails no costs to distribute free software.
Best wishes,
123
WayneW
Senior Member
No, they are not obliged to do or pay anything.
No, what was once free is still free. I have not heard of any plans to restrict membership or privileges to pay-only.
No, the developer must NOT pay. Quite twisting things. CocoonTech has added optional things and not changed any of the existing free things it offered.
If the developer is not willing to share the cost of hosting his free software offerings and not willing to host it himself or find a place to share it, that implies that you think that CocoonTech should provide hosting services to all free software groups for free. That isn't fair.
Go to https://www.getdropbox.com/home and get 2 GB of hosting for free for Premise files.
Paul
Active Member
As an addition to what Wayne just said, I imagine that dan has something in the works to take care of this problem anyway.
On another note 123, I've been asking Dan since before you were a member here what I could do to help him out. I know that running a big community like this takes time and money, and I've always wanted to donate. Dan has in the past never let me donate anything, as well as even trying to mail me back a freebie or 2 that i've sent him. It's crazy to think that this site would forever go with no ads and no subscription options. It's a full time job in and of itself for dan to do this, and I want to support him any way that I can.
If you can't afford to/don't want to/whatever, that's fine, but most of the rest of us are damn happy about this.
On another note 123, I've been asking Dan since before you were a member here what I could do to help him out. I know that running a big community like this takes time and money, and I've always wanted to donate. Dan has in the past never let me donate anything, as well as even trying to mail me back a freebie or 2 that i've sent him. It's crazy to think that this site would forever go with no ads and no subscription options. It's a full time job in and of itself for dan to do this, and I want to support him any way that I can.
If you can't afford to/don't want to/whatever, that's fine, but most of the rest of us are damn happy about this.
While I understand 123's postion, the fact is that there are other alternatives to hosting a file, some are even free. IF Dan isn't able to work something out, then there are still other options. Yes, it will require some researching by the Premise user group. Perhaps someone could right a "Where to host files" thread so that the general community could learn together. A simple link will allow users to still trade files back and forth as normal. Those files may just reside on another machine.
123
Senior Member
WayneW,
In the past I could post approximately 5 Mb in total. The old arrangement allowed me to post several files including some in the 500K range. The new system has eliminated the cap but reduced the individual attachment size to 100K. Overall, this is a welcome improvement for the majority of users. However, if I wish to continue to post 500K files here, I am obligated to pay for that privilege; some of the free things have changed.
I don't expect Cocoontech to provide free hosting services. In fact, I don't have any preconceived notions of what Cocoontech should or shouldn't offer. It is Dan and BSR's business and they've done a fantastic job building a important resource for the HA community. I'm doing what active members should do in a vibrant community, voice their opinions and concerns in a constructive fashion. Dan has indicated he is devising a solution and I look forward to seeing it.
In the past I could post approximately 5 Mb in total. The old arrangement allowed me to post several files including some in the 500K range. The new system has eliminated the cap but reduced the individual attachment size to 100K. Overall, this is a welcome improvement for the majority of users. However, if I wish to continue to post 500K files here, I am obligated to pay for that privilege; some of the free things have changed.
I don't expect Cocoontech to provide free hosting services. In fact, I don't have any preconceived notions of what Cocoontech should or shouldn't offer. It is Dan and BSR's business and they've done a fantastic job building a important resource for the HA community. I'm doing what active members should do in a vibrant community, voice their opinions and concerns in a constructive fashion. Dan has indicated he is devising a solution and I look forward to seeing it.
123, this limit was removed a long time ago, it was a misconfiguration due to an upgrade gone wrong, it wasn't implemented because of the subscription model (which are really just donations, as CT will never restrict access to data registered members). I caught this issue about 2 months ago, when some backups started failing, and reset that limit back then. Let's consider this subject closed please, as it is being taken care of.
