johnnynine
Active Member
Great thanks!AutomatedOutlet said:
Now I just have to wait and see why kind of tiny can they install for the GE alarm system. :unsure:
Confused on needed Elk M1G accessories
- Thread starter johnnynine
- Start date
Now I just have to wait and see why kind of tiny can they install for the GE alarm system. :unsure:
johnnynine
Active Member
Adding the 2nd can will be tricky. As you can see from the picture... the phone, intercom, network and video are all run to the 42" can in the wall, while the security can actually will sit outside of the wall and near the ceiling. I'm not sure why they have this design.
I'll probably have to do my best to get them to leave the sensor wiring as long as possible when they install the GE alarm system.
Any creative ideas out there on how I will be able rip out their small can and replace it with a larger in wall can... and have it look ok from the outside... WAF you know.
In the worst case scenerio I would just use their small can for the elk and add another 42" can to the left (or right?) of the existing one and place all the supplemental elk peripherals into it. Can I run wires that long from the elk m1g to the peripherals (such as M1XSP, M1DBH)?
I'll probably have to do my best to get them to leave the sensor wiring as long as possible when they install the GE alarm system.
Any creative ideas out there on how I will be able rip out their small can and replace it with a larger in wall can... and have it look ok from the outside... WAF you know.
In the worst case scenerio I would just use their small can for the elk and add another 42" can to the left (or right?) of the existing one and place all the supplemental elk peripherals into it. Can I run wires that long from the elk m1g to the peripherals (such as M1XSP, M1DBH)?
AutomatedOutlet
Senior Member
485 wire run length shouldn't be an issue.
I would go ahead and punch out holes throught the side of the 42" can through the stud if you are planning on installing the new can on the side.
Also, if you are mounting it elsewhere, you could put in some pull strings to get the wires from one location to the other.
I would go ahead and punch out holes throught the side of the 42" can through the stud if you are planning on installing the new can on the side.
Also, if you are mounting it elsewhere, you could put in some pull strings to get the wires from one location to the other.
johnnynine
Active Member
I talked to the construction manager and they will add another can on the next bay over and a conduit tube to the security panel. Here is what I think it will look like. I'll probably have to cut a hole between the 2 cans at some point... that way it is easier to connect the elk m1g to the ethernet network. I'm very happy to be getting this in place before the wall is drywalled, that's less work for me later.
So 2 42" cans plus the nasty wall mounted security box will hopefully be enough. I wish the sensor wires were longer.
Would it be ok if I extend each sensor line down into the new can?
And if so what is the best way to do that?
So 2 42" cans plus the nasty wall mounted security box will hopefully be enough. I wish the sensor wires were longer.
Would it be ok if I extend each sensor line down into the new can?
And if so what is the best way to do that?
BraveSirRobbin
Moderator
Couple of suggestions:
Can you move your Elk box over to the left so you don't have to have that 90 degree bend in the conduit?
Get two conduit runs between your structured wiring boxes (one towards the top and one towards the bottom).
Can you move your Elk box over to the left so you don't have to have that 90 degree bend in the conduit?
Get two conduit runs between your structured wiring boxes (one towards the top and one towards the bottom).
johnnynine
Active Member
Ok it's done... I was fairly close in my mockup...
wuench
Senior Member
I agree with BSR, before you mud that drywall add conduit between the cans, you'll need it.
You already need to run between the two:
1.) 1 CAT5 Ethernet for the M1XEP
2.) 1 Phone Wire (CAT5) for the RJ31X
And I am sure there is more I am missing....
Also, you should consider running conduit from the right cabinet to the attic, if you have one. Just in case you need to run something more later. That is, unless you are addicted to patching drywall.
You already need to run between the two:
1.) 1 CAT5 Ethernet for the M1XEP
2.) 1 Phone Wire (CAT5) for the RJ31X
And I am sure there is more I am missing....
Also, you should consider running conduit from the right cabinet to the attic, if you have one. Just in case you need to run something more later. That is, unless you are addicted to patching drywall.
johnnynine
Active Member
I can run conduit between the 2 cans at a later point, just pop out the metal holes on both cans since they are lined up fairly well and use a 90 degree drill with a hole saw to cut through the stud. There shouldn't be any drywall work with that.
The cans are on the 1st floor so there is no attic immediatley above it so I probably won't add conduit from one of the cans to between the floors... at least at this point.
The home is being built by a builder and is not a custom home so I more than likely wouldn't be making friends if i was to go and cut holes in anything now.
Thanks for the tips.
The cans are on the 1st floor so there is no attic immediatley above it so I probably won't add conduit from one of the cans to between the floors... at least at this point.
The home is being built by a builder and is not a custom home so I more than likely wouldn't be making friends if i was to go and cut holes in anything now.
Thanks for the tips.
I've just looked at this thread for the first time. Your installation is similar to mine. One thing you don't have on your list is extra speakers. I put 4 in my home. You do know that the speakers int he keypads are NOT for voice right? - beeping only.
Keep in mind that the end of line resistors for the GE panel and that required for the Elk are likely different....this can be a real problem down the line.
From your photos I would suggest you put your zone expanders in the old GE box and just run a single buss cable to the M1G which would be mounted in one of your larger panels. Looks like the zone wires are too short to reach the larger cans, and that's a lot of cables to stuff in that orange raceway you have. (I'm assuming the cables by the mud ring are zone cables)
Keep in mind that the end of line resistors for the GE panel and that required for the Elk are likely different....this can be a real problem down the line.
From your photos I would suggest you put your zone expanders in the old GE box and just run a single buss cable to the M1G which would be mounted in one of your larger panels. Looks like the zone wires are too short to reach the larger cans, and that's a lot of cables to stuff in that orange raceway you have. (I'm assuming the cables by the mud ring are zone cables)
johnnynine
Active Member
Thanks for the update reminder.
In fact I just started to populate the enclosure last week. One of them is almost full and contains satellite tv distribution, intercom distribution, telephone distribution, and internet/intranet distribution. I used heavy duty velcro to secure the items into place. I really like the velcro as it makes it easy to pull things out quickly. My "lean expert" wife actually helped me with the organization of the enclosure, but it is nearly full and the biggest problem is the distribution of 120v ac. (It's good to get her involved so she can appreciate the complexities of something as seemingly simple as enclosure organization.) There are 2 outlets at the bottom which I plugged a power strip into, but almost every component has a clunky transformer plug in, so I think I can only plug 2 of them into the powerstrip. I just picked up some short power supply liberator cords today to see if those help.
In the other can I added the ELK-M1, which up until last week had been sitting in my office at work. I am currently running off a GE Concord security system now which is being monitored. In a few weeks when I know all the wiring is working, I'll have to rewire all the sensors to the elk-m1 and notify the monitoring company that I am ready to do the switch. Of course that voids the warranty on all the wiring and the old alarm system. The biggest gotcha with that is I will have to somehow extend all of the security wiring about 3 feet to reach the ElkM1. I'm not sure the best apprach for that yet.
Unfortunately the enclosures are made by GreyFox and none of the mounting holes match up with the Elk pins.
I installed the original 14x14 Elk enclosure in the garage which has cat5 running to it from the ElkM1. I also placed an outlet in the enclosure which is used to power a 24VAC .650amp transformer that I got at The Home Depot that drives the irrigation valves via an ELK relay board that is also in the enclosure. I ran the irrigation wiring though PVC down the garage wall and out the side of the house, then underground to the sprinkler valve solenoids. That's really the only thing the Elk is doing at this time.
I'm still trying to determine which lighting control system to go with. I got some new Insteon Dimmers which seem to work better than the old ones I had. But at this point I also want to check out the ViziaRF ZWave switches although they are more expensive but see to work in a more intuitive way. My ZWave knowledge is fairly low so I need to study up on it as well.
Then there is the missing home automation server (running CQC) that I need to get to do voice announcements and in the future provide a nice user interface to the home automation and theater systems among other things. You can see my CQC interfaces at My CQC Templates
So it is coming along slowly, but as for the enclosures, I actually wish they were a little bigger if you can believe that. I also put locks on them for a little more security.
In fact I just started to populate the enclosure last week. One of them is almost full and contains satellite tv distribution, intercom distribution, telephone distribution, and internet/intranet distribution. I used heavy duty velcro to secure the items into place. I really like the velcro as it makes it easy to pull things out quickly. My "lean expert" wife actually helped me with the organization of the enclosure, but it is nearly full and the biggest problem is the distribution of 120v ac. (It's good to get her involved so she can appreciate the complexities of something as seemingly simple as enclosure organization.) There are 2 outlets at the bottom which I plugged a power strip into, but almost every component has a clunky transformer plug in, so I think I can only plug 2 of them into the powerstrip. I just picked up some short power supply liberator cords today to see if those help.
In the other can I added the ELK-M1, which up until last week had been sitting in my office at work. I am currently running off a GE Concord security system now which is being monitored. In a few weeks when I know all the wiring is working, I'll have to rewire all the sensors to the elk-m1 and notify the monitoring company that I am ready to do the switch. Of course that voids the warranty on all the wiring and the old alarm system. The biggest gotcha with that is I will have to somehow extend all of the security wiring about 3 feet to reach the ElkM1. I'm not sure the best apprach for that yet.
Unfortunately the enclosures are made by GreyFox and none of the mounting holes match up with the Elk pins.
I installed the original 14x14 Elk enclosure in the garage which has cat5 running to it from the ElkM1. I also placed an outlet in the enclosure which is used to power a 24VAC .650amp transformer that I got at The Home Depot that drives the irrigation valves via an ELK relay board that is also in the enclosure. I ran the irrigation wiring though PVC down the garage wall and out the side of the house, then underground to the sprinkler valve solenoids. That's really the only thing the Elk is doing at this time.
I'm still trying to determine which lighting control system to go with. I got some new Insteon Dimmers which seem to work better than the old ones I had. But at this point I also want to check out the ViziaRF ZWave switches although they are more expensive but see to work in a more intuitive way. My ZWave knowledge is fairly low so I need to study up on it as well.
Then there is the missing home automation server (running CQC) that I need to get to do voice announcements and in the future provide a nice user interface to the home automation and theater systems among other things. You can see my CQC interfaces at My CQC Templates
So it is coming along slowly, but as for the enclosures, I actually wish they were a little bigger if you can believe that. I also put locks on them for a little more security.
johnnynine
Active Member
Not a bad idea but I only have one zone expander and I'd rather not buy another one at $70+. I'll also probably be selling the entire GE system with the can as well as I would assume it would sell better that way.carry15+1 said:
So I'll likely be splicing a lot of wire.
h34r: Although I can't seem to find the elk style wire splices at home depot though. Perhaps there is a better option.I really should make sure all the zone wires fit in the orange conduit, as you mention it isn't very big.
Edit: I'm not really sure why the conduit is there. I'd probably be better off just drilling another hole through the stud and run the cable down into one of the 3 big holes in the top of the enclosure.
johnnynine
Active Member
Wow the more I think about all the wire splicing... I'm leaning towards just getting another input/zone expander card as well as another enclosure.
I may just get a small enclosure and keep the Elk in the 42" can, then run 2 lines up from the data bus hub to the 2 zone expanders.
Any thoughts?
I may just get a small enclosure and keep the Elk in the 42" can, then run 2 lines up from the data bus hub to the 2 zone expanders.
Any thoughts?
