Consolidating sensor pairs into one cat5 for long haul

[miamicanes]

Suppose I have a sliding glass door with the following sensors:

2 magnetic sensors, 1 pair of wires apiece
2 vibration sensors (say, window bugs), 1 pair of wires apiece

Now, suppose I want to run the wire pairs inside the wall down to the nearest baseboard, but inside a plate-covered single-gang outlet box just above the baseboard, I want to consolidate the 4 wire-pairs into one cat5e cable for the final ~70-foot run to the controller.

Is there a proper name for something that could presumably be described as "mini punchdown block small enough to neatly fit inside a single-gang box, with enough capacity to handle at least 4 pairs, ideally at least 8 (in case I add more sensors to the area someday)? Or should I just go to Radio Shack and buy an 8-terminal "Eurostyle" terminal block, screw the wires into their respective sides, and just shove it inside the box and screw the plate over it?

Why consolidate? Among other things, I suspect it'll be easier to keep track of the wires if I have just a few cat5e cables emerging from the conduit in the laundry room, and have it written down somewhere that the red pair on the "living room sliding door" cable is the left pane's glassbreak sensor, than if I try to pull, label, and keep track of almost a dozen individual wire pairs spewing into the laundry room

 

[CollinR]

I just use B connectors, I do the same for video over UTP no troubles splicing.

 

[IVB]

yeah, that's what i'm doing with my mag sensors...

 

[miamicanes]

Sorry about the newbie question, but what are "B" connectors?

Also, how important are the anti-tamper features in a normal residential setting? Can I safely ignore them altogether and run ONLY a pair of wires to each sensor, or will I likely end up seriously regretting it if I don't run 4 wires to each sensor from day one, even if I have to leave the "tamper" wires disconnected in the beginning due to running out of zones? I just bought a house, and for the next few months I'm trying to avoid blowing excessive amounts of cash up front (for things like a zone input expander for the M1EZ8) than I absolutely have to, so I can first get things like a kitchen table and put a 19" panel across from it (and maybe a Wii for the living room) first ;-)

 

[Steve]

B connectors aka 'beenies' are simple crimp on connectors like this. I also like Scotchlok connectors if you are dealing with solid wire. You can even get them local at Home Depot. Both of these types of connectors are available with gel if being used in an area containing moisture.

Where is your place in SoFla? You can PM me if you don't want to say (I'm also in SoFla).

 

[gatchel]

I would use the B Connectors over scotchlok's.

If you want you can series or parallel the tamper terminals in with the zone. They will report as the same alarm but at least you get an alarm.

 

[miamicanes]

Where is your place in SoFla? You can PM me if you don't want to say (I'm also in SoFla).

At the moment, I'm kind of in limbo between my new house (Pembroke Pines) and my old one (Coral Gables). Assuming everything goes according to plan, I'll hopefully be able to spend next weekend installing the Wiretracks & vertical conduit, wiring the alarm, and the rest of the stuff I want to have done before I physically move in.

Know of any good places to buy alarm wire, sensors, etc in Dade/Broward? Tiger Direct seems to have the best deal I've found for cat5e ($59/500', $99/1000'), but I'm still debating whether I'd save enough on alarm wire to bother with mail order vs buying it locally. I'd LOVE to find a local source for the sensors, though, just so I wouldn't have to pre-emptively try to guess what I'll need only to discover mid-weekend that I overlooked/forgot something important. Sigh. I wish froogle.com had a mode where you could search for things, but limit results to vendors physically located within 25/50/100 miles of some zipcode. Every now and then I get lucky and trip over a company that normally sells via internet, but just so happens to be local & allows local pickup from their shipping dock.

 

[Steve]

Know of any good places to buy alarm wire, sensors, etc in Dade/Broward? Tiger Direct seems to have the best deal I've found for cat5e ($59/500', $99/1000'), but I'm still debating whether I'd save enough on alarm wire to bother with mail order vs buying it locally. I'd LOVE to find a local source for the sensors, though, just so I wouldn't have to pre-emptively try to guess what I'll need only to discover mid-weekend that I overlooked/forgot something important.g dock.

There are several places to source cable locally but my local favorite has been Keystone wire and cable in Pompano Beach. There are several posts about them in various threads. Last I bought Cat 5 it was around $80/1000. I usually buy what I need at Automated Outlet and then use local sources if I need something right away.

 

[miamicanes]

Know of any good places to buy alarm wire, sensors, etc in Dade/Broward? Tiger Direct seems to have the best deal I've found for cat5e ($59/500', $99/1000'), but I'm still debating whether I'd save enough on alarm wire to bother with mail order vs buying it locally. I'd LOVE to find a local source for the sensors, though, just so I wouldn't have to pre-emptively try to guess what I'll need only to discover mid-weekend that I overlooked/forgot something important.g dock.

There are several places to source cable locally but my local favorite has been Keystone wire and cable in Pompano Beach. There are several posts about them in various threads. Last I bought Cat 5 it was around $80/1000. I usually buy what I need at Automated Outlet and then use local sources if I need something right away.

Do you know of any Dade/Broward/Palm Beach sources for things like contact sensors? I found a bunch of Dade businesses that sell them, but they all look like the kind of places that either won't sell to you unless you're a licensed installer, or won't sell anything less than a complete turnkey system with 3 year contract.

The damn contact sensors are driving me insane. It took me about 2 hours to decide I was going to buy either a M1G or M1EZ8, but so far I've burned the better part of 4 days agonizing over the cheapest parts of the whole system because 99% of them don't have proper engineering drawings or documentation. I need to either find someplace local where I can physically look at them to figure out whether they'll fit, or I'm just going to have to randomly buy 2 or 3 different sensors for each door/window and hope at least one of them fits. The fact that I don't have physical access to my new house yet (the closing isn't until Thursday or Friday), but need to have the alarm parts on hand by Friday so I can install it over the weekend before moving in, just makes it that much harder (I took lots of pics and notes each time I've been able to get into the house during the inspections, appraisal, etc, but I've only had about 20-30 minutes each time and ended up going home every time with less info than I really wanted to gather).

 

[Steve]

Did you not get my PM yesterday? There are lots of contact types but really boils down to a surface or recess mount. I have a local source in Lauderdale or Miami that might sell direct to you or I can get them for you if need be. If in doubt I would just go with the George Risk 110s. Here is an idea of what they look like (but looks bigger in the pic). Or I have a few laying around and I can hookup w/you and show you what they look like. Feel free to send me an email at Steve at stevescocoon.com and I will give you my phone # if you want. I am in NW Broward.

 

[miamicanes]

Have you ever dealt with thebestguard.com? They're in Davie or Hollywood and seem to have a huge selection with good prices. According to the employee I talked to yesterday, they allow pickups. I emailed my shopping list to them & I'm waiting to hear back (I should probably give them a call just in case I emailed it to the wrong address).

Also, I read somewhere that alarm sensors are supposed to be wired with 22# wire, or using a pair of cat5 wires for each signal. Does that really matter if you're talking about a run that's 50 feet or less?

Also, I'm planning to have the keypad, a speaker, and a microphone in the same general area. Can I use a single cat5e cable to service them all (2 pairs for the keypad, 1 pair for the speaker, 1 pair for the microphone), do I more or less HAVE to use separate cables (say, to avoid having the keypad's data corrupted and be unable to silence an alarm that's going off), or do I have to bite the bullet and buy actual shielded cable for them? And if I have to use shielded cable for them, does it need to be two separate shielded cables (1 for speaker, 1 for mic)?

(Oh by the way Steve, thanks! Sorry I've been so rude... I've been scrambling for the past day or two to try and make sure that the bank doesn't screw up and delay the closing until Monday and to get everything ready for the weekend)

 

[Steve]

No, I have no heard about that place and honestly I found their website a real pita.

Yes, 'typical' alarm wire is 22ga. I would run 3 separate wires for those things, mostly because their ideal wire is different.

Keypad: Cat5 by itself (you can use spare pair for future input zone or output)
Speaker/Siren: I would use at least 18 gauge if not 16 gauge zip cord
Mic: No expert on this but I think you want shield wire for this

 

[miamicanes]

OK, in my new house now (closed on Friday as planned, physically moved yesterday, hopefully I'll be able to move my body without pain in another hour or so once the Advil kicks in...). Like I mentioned in a few other posts, assuming I can clear a physical path, I'm still gonna have some serious space constraints limiting the total number of wires I can pull. If we're talking about a hundred-foot distance between the sensor and controller (max... more like 70'-80'), is it likely to be OK to just use a single pair of 24# wires in a cat5 cable for each door sensor so I can run them on one cat5 cable instead of 4?

 

[Steve]

Technically that will work, but depending on where your doors/contacts are, you will be running plain unsheathed twisted pair which is not ideal.

 

[miamicanes]

Hmmm... thinking more about it, it seems like the shielding should be a non-issue since there's no modulation involved with contact switches (well, if there is, it would probably be measured by the millihertz), but resistance might (since I think alarms use different resistance values to sense "tampered with" vs "triggered outright"). What range of end-to-end resistance values would be acceptable in this case (single pair sensing a single contact switch)?