controlling low voltage lights for my garden

[wuench]

What I have here now are two 100ft 16 gauge low voltage bury wires made by Yard Scape. I also have 25 pieces of Malibu CL4 low voltage lights which totals to 175watts(7watts each low voltage ligts) when all lights are used. I've read in Malibu that I can only have two max wire runs per transformer and a max of 300watts combined. But looks like I am good since it's just 175watts.

Also, I was hoping if there was a 12vac transformer that doesn't have a timer. Maybe, if there was no timer, it can be a little cheaper than the Malibu.

Thank you so much!

Spanky said in the other Malibu lv thread that the M1RB relays could handle 12amps, so I don't think you can go over 144 Watts per relay. (12ampsx12Volts). So you can't put more than 20 7W lights (140W) on a run/relay.

I have never seen one without a timer but you can also go for a smaller transformer, I believe they sell 200W ones. You have a total of 25*7=175W.

Also, you may want to talk to Malibu, but 16 guage wire may be too small for that number of lights. You may see a significant drop in brightness.

Your other choice (and a much simpler one), as mentioned above, is to use X10 or some other lighting protocol (insteon, UPB, ZWave) to switch the high voltage side. The PCS05 is an X10 Serial module that you would plug into the Elk and you put an X10 appliance module or outlet and plug the transformer into it. Then just use X10 to switch the transformer. But be careful and check the ratings of the appliance module/outlet and make sure your transformer is under them. I.e. if it's 300W Appliance module don't but a 500W transformer. In this case you don't need the M1RB, etc.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

What I have here now are two 100ft 16 gauge low voltage bury wires made by Yard Scape. I also have 25 pieces of Malibu CL4 low voltage lights which totals to 175watts(7watts each low voltage ligts) when all lights are used. I've read in Malibu that I can only have two max wire runs per transformer and a max of 300watts combined. But looks like I am good since it's just 175watts.

Also, I was hoping if there was a 12vac transformer that doesn't have a timer. Maybe, if there was no timer, it can be a little cheaper than the Malibu.

Thank you so much!

Spanky said in the other Malibu lv thread that the M1RB relays could handle 12amps, so I don't think you can go over 144 Watts per relay. (12ampsx12Volts). So you can't put more than 20 7W lights (140W) on a run/relay.

I have never seen one without a timer but you can also go for a smaller transformer, I believe they sell 200W ones. You have a total of 25*7=175W.

Also, you may want to talk to Malibu, but 16 guage wire may be too small for that number of lights. You may see a significant drop in brightness.

Your other choice (and a much simpler one), as mentioned above, is to use X10 or some other lighting protocol (insteon, UPB, ZWave) to switch the high voltage side. The PCS05 is an X10 Serial module that you would plug into the Elk and you put an X10 appliance module or outlet and plug the transformer into it. Then just use X10 to switch the transformer. But be careful and check the ratings of the appliance module/outlet and make sure your transformer is under them. I.e. if it's 300W Appliance module don't but a 500W transformer. In this case you don't need the M1RB, etc.

The reason I asked for the relay route is because, I saw PCS05 yesterday and what I saw that it looked like a wallmart. So I've been thinking how I am going to plug this in to my ELK M1. Maybe, I pulled a wrong website. Can you point me to the right website for the PCS05? Also, I remember BSR was saying that my electrical wiring has to be compliant with X10. How will I verify that?

Thanks!

EDIT:

Looks like what I saw yesterday was correct. But which part of my M1 should that be connected?

Well, another EDIT:

I found out that PSC05 should be connected to ELK's Magic Jack J5. I also saw from ELK M1 manual, where J5 is

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

Also, you may want to talk to Malibu, but 16 guage wire may be too small for that number of lights. You may see a significant drop in brightness.

I found this table from Malibu Lights website.

217-300 12
157-216 14
121-156 16
0-120 18

I guess, I'll just have to lessen the low voltage lights for now. I already have solar lights outside. I'll make sure that my total wattage is within 121 to 156 watts.

Thanks.

Neil

EDIT:

Well, spoke to Malibu tech support, they say that the information from their website is incorrect.

12gauage 200' at 300watts
14gauge, 150' at 200watts
16gauge at 100' at 120watts

 

[PaulD]

I did not see any mentioin of where the transformer power pack was to be mounted. I noted in the Malibu tech info that their power packs are rated as an outside unit and should not be installed indoors.
I am headed down this same path with a new house under construction and I had intended to mount my powerpack inside near my HA equipment then fan out my cable to my landscape lights. I will not have many lights but I will have about 4 ea 10ga runs of about 50 ft to the first light. However, the comment about not using the power pack inside made me wonder why. Any one know the reason? Is there a concern that an overheated power pack might cause a fire? If so, how it that issue resolved if you mount a powerpack outside on a wood surface?
Paul D

 

[wuench]

I did not see any mentioin of where the transformer power pack was to be mounted. I noted in the Malibu tech info that their power packs are rated as an outside unit and should not be installed indoors.
I am headed down this same path with a new house under construction and I had intended to mount my powerpack inside near my HA equipment then fan out my cable to my landscape lights. I will not have many lights but I will have about 4 ea 10ga runs of about 50 ft to the first light. However, the comment about not using the power pack inside made me wonder why. Any one know the reason? Is there a concern that an overheated power pack might cause a fire? If so, how it that issue resolved if you mount a powerpack outside on a wood surface?
Paul D

Wow, I would like to know the answer to that myself. I have two (1 200W and 1 600W) and they do get warm and are noisy. I was planning on moving them to my garage eventually. These should be on GFCI also. So it is kind of conflicting, need to move them out of the weather so I use an appliance module, replacing the outdoor GFCI with an Insteon outlet would break NEC, and then can't move them indoors for some unknown reason.

I know my neighbor has his in the garage, but I don't know what brand of transformer he has. And I think he is pulling a lot of wattage because his lights are a LOT brighter than mine.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I have a transformer installed on my outdoor block wall, and temps here get over 100 degrees and I operate mine with no problem. I'm not sure why the indoor caution...

 

[PaulD]

Wow, I would like to know the answer to that myself. I have two (1 200W and 1 600W) and they do get warm and are noisy.

I suspected they might get warm but I had not thought about the noisy part. I guess the transformets probably generate some humming sounds plus the timer clock probably makes some noise. I still want mine inside but I will rethink where I locate the power pack to deal with the potential noise. Must pass the WAF test.

Paul D

 

[wuench]

Wow, I would like to know the answer to that myself. I have two (1 200W and 1 600W) and they do get warm and are noisy.

I suspected they might get warm but I had not thought about the noisy part. I guess the transformets probably generate some humming sounds plus the timer clock probably makes some noise. I still want mine inside but I will rethink where I locate the power pack to deal with the potential noise. Must pass the WAF test.

Paul D

My 600W is outside a basement bedroom I don't really use. But when I go downstairs I can hear the humming. It hums no matter if the lights are on or off, all day long. That is another reason I would like to move it all to the garage, maybe all onto one transformer. I really wish they made them with internal relays that you could just trigger from the Elk. Seems like it would be a common thing.

Also, as a side note, I had one of those photo sensors on my 600W transformer. It is actually a switch that all the LV power runs through, you cable it in-line. It didn't last very long. I never checked, it may not be rated to handle the 400w or so of power.

 

[sda]

However, the comment about not using the power pack inside made me wonder why. Any one know the reason?

I read on an electrical forum that the outdoor LV cable itself is usually not rated for indoor installation. Poisonous gas when it burns and stuff like that. Obviously if you mount the transformer indoors, you have to run the cable indoors.

You should probably put the transformer outside as close to the lighting as possible. Long cable runs will suffer from voltage drop, lower voltage = dimmer lights. You can always go up a size or two in the cable to compensate.

As mentioned before, your best bet is to switch the power going to the transformer. If its not on, its not wasting power when its not used. You'll need to set or rig the transformer so its always on. If you need to switch a large load, use a fan contactor as an intermediary.
controller->relay->contactor->load.
The relay only needs to handle enough current to engage the contactor, just a few watts. A white-rogers 90-291Q or equivalent will handle 16A resistive @ 120V.

 

[jharrell]

Also, as a side note, I had one of those photo sensors on my 600W transformer. It is actually a switch that all the LV power runs through, you cable it in-line. It didn't last very long. I never checked, it may not be rated to handle the 400w or so of power.

The Hampton bay photocell transformers I found use a very low power photocell(looks like 5v on my multimeter) so they are not directly switching the load. To me this seems like the cleanest/safest way to switch the LV light next to a UPB relay switch. These are completely weatherproof transformers that I can just run cat5 to to perform switching.

Attached are some pics of the trasnformer:

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

Here is an update folks. I can't find a transformer that doesn't have a timer. So I went and purchase the 200W malibu transformer. Now, I don't know if there is still a need for me to control this via ELK. What are some reasons that I still need to control this via ELK if it has a timer?

Thanks.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Here is an update folks. I can't find a transformer that doesn't have a timer. So I went and purchase the 200W malibu transformer. Now, I don't know if there is still a need for me to control this via ELK. What are some reasons that I still need to control this via ELK if it has a timer?

Sunrise/Sunset settings without having to ever change a clock. If you don't have them on all night, maybe activate them on an alarm condition.

You can just remove the plastic on/off settings "pins" from the timer and it will not control the unit (this is what I do).

 

[Steve]

Most professional transformers like this one are available without timers. The 'stuff' available in the big box stores usually have timers for the 'avg' person who needs it.

 

[jharrell]

Most professional transformers like this one are available without timers. The 'stuff' available in the big box stores usually have timers for the 'avg' person who needs it.

Funny This "professional" transformer made by progress linked off the manual one you linked looks to be the exact same one as the Hampton bay I got from the big box store?

 

[wuench]

1.) My biggest motivation for wanting to do this is the Sunrise/Sunset thing. My lights are all on timers now and they need constant adjustment throughout the year. Of course, I don't adjust them very often the result is they are almost always coming on during the day or going off too early or late. The elk and /or CQC know when sunset is, so more more adjustments.

2.) I eventually want to put motion detectors outside so they come on if someone approaches the house.