Did Home Automation Save You Money ?

[Digger]

They have made much improvements in v2 models.

Yes they have.

However, when faced with a number of devices that needed replaced I had the option of 1) replacing my devices with newer V2's via the RMA process (IOW, SH would bear the brunt of the cost and I would just have to replace and reprogram the devices) or 2) finding a new technology and eating the entire cost.

In my own house, where my income would not be affected, I could not stick with Insteon. So if you are willing to bet your livelihood on Insteon, you have bigger onions than me.

In all fairness to SH if/once they fix the paddle issue and the switches turning on after a power failure things should settle down a bit. Until then I have to agree with you Herdfan.

 

[gregoryx]

part of your increase in cost is due to the increase in the cost of electricity after the industry was deregulated in CA. i figure i'm paying somewhere between 30-50% more per kwh than in 2000.

i did a quick look @ my electricity bill spreadsheet and right up until 6/2001 we were paying about 11 cents/kwh. after that, it spiked up to about 15 cents/kwh and, for the most part, has stayed that way since.

Sounds wonderful. Ours is more like 100% increase with the "compared to... so we increased you rate" bull. We've gone over $600 for electric alone - with no swimming pool. h34r:

 

[MikeB]

part of your increase in cost is due to the increase in the cost of electricity after the industry was deregulated in CA. i figure i'm paying somewhere between 30-50% more per kwh than in 2000.

i did a quick look @ my electricity bill spreadsheet and right up until 6/2001 we were paying about 11 cents/kwh. after that, it spiked up to about 15 cents/kwh and, for the most part, has stayed that way since.

Sounds wonderful. Ours is more like 100% increase with the "compared to... so we increased you rate" bull. We've gone over $600 for electric alone - with no swimming pool. :blink:

Ouch. My bill is out of control too. I went through a period of 3 months about 1.5 years go where my bill seemed fairly normal, then 3 months later I received an astronomical bill. Turns out I never noticed that the previous few bills had "estimated" instead of "actual" checked off on my bill, and all of a sudden they did read my meter and I received a huge catch up bill.

I had just installed a hot tub in the back yard, and it was the dead of winter. We weren't using it yet. I had no idea the amount of energy it was using because I was getting those "estimated" bills. Nice surprise.

But in general my electric bill is out of control, and I need to find a way to reduce it without giving up all my toys.

 

[ginigma]

Yeah, I picked up a Kill-a-watt meter a few weeks ago and have started to figure out how much it's costing me to leave all the computers on 24x7, plus all the other toys.

 

[MikeB]

Yeah, I picked up a Kill-a-watt meter a few weeks ago and have started to figure out how much it's costing me to leave all the computers on 24x7, plus all the other toys.

I have one as well - great device, but doesn't help me with my hot tub... :blink:

 

[Digger]

Yeah, I picked up a Kill-a-watt meter a few weeks ago and have started to figure out how much it's costing me to leave all the computers on 24x7, plus all the other toys.

FYI I "think" you need to be careful about plugging a Kill-a-watt meter into a UPS. I remember seeing something about killing the meter and not the watt since it cant handle the waveform out of some UPS's.

If I come across what I read I will post it. Or maybe someone else remembers seeing this also.

 

[Digger]

part of your increase in cost is due to the increase in the cost of electricity after the industry was deregulated in CA. i figure i'm paying somewhere between 30-50% more per kwh than in 2000.

i did a quick look @ my electricity bill spreadsheet and right up until 6/2001 we were paying about 11 cents/kwh. after that, it spiked up to about 15 cents/kwh and, for the most part, has stayed that way since.

Sounds wonderful. Ours is more like 100% increase with the "compared to... so we increased you rate" bull. We've gone over $600 for electric alone - with no swimming pool. :blink:

Ouch. My bill is out of control too. I went through a period of 3 months about 1.5 years go where my bill seemed fairly normal, then 3 months later I received an astronomical bill. Turns out I never noticed that the previous few bills had "estimated" instead of "actual" checked off on my bill, and all of a sudden they did read my meter and I received a huge catch up bill.

I had just installed a hot tub in the back yard, and it was the dead of winter. We weren't using it yet. I had no idea the amount of energy it was using because I was getting those "estimated" bills. Nice surprise.

But in general my electric bill is out of control, and I need to find a way to reduce it without giving up all my toys.

Mike

I know you automate your lighting but what about the AC's and the hot tub etc. You probably have a lot of what you need already. Maybe you are already doing those things I dont know but from what you have mentioned here and elsewhere it sounds like you have a lot of the hardware/software already.

I just put X-10 modules on my wall AC's and shut them down for a few hours when the alarm panel is armed away but they come back on after a few hours or upon disarm (my wife doesnt even know since its basically invisable to her since it happens only when no body is home). X-10 is dirt cheap so the ROI is a few months. At the same time I have the ability to shut off ac's, dryer, heat etc in a fire via the alarm panel controls.

 

[MikeB]

I know you automate your lighting but what about the AC's and the hot tub etc. You probably have a lot of what you need already. Maybe you are already doing those things I dont know but from what you have mentioned here and elsewhere it sounds like you have a lot of the hardware/software already.

I just put X-10 modules on my wall AC's and shut them down for a few hours when the alarm panel is armed away but they come back on after a few hours or upon disarm (my wife doesnt even know since its basically invisable to her since it happens only when no body is home). X-10 is dirt cheap so the ROI is a few months. At the same time I have the ability to shut off ac's, dryer, heat etc in a fire via the alarm panel controls.

I don't have separate AC units, it's forced hot air / AC throughout my house with 4 zones. I'd love to automate my thermostats, but I'm not interested in running additional wire to my thermostats right now. I'm hoping the rumored Insteon RF thermostat that uses existing wiring is released (I don't remember the company that showed it at CES), or maybe some other brand type - anything that uses existing thermostat wiring that I can control via CQC would be fine by me.

I don't see what could be automated with my hot tub. It needs to maintain a certain temperature to be usable, and the pumps need to turn on intermittently to circulate the water. What I DO need to do is build some kind of enclosure around it to make it more usable for us in the winter. Hopefully that would help reduce energy costs in the winter as well.

 

[damage]

part of your increase in cost is due to the increase in the cost of electricity after the industry was deregulated in CA. i figure i'm paying somewhere between 30-50% more per kwh than in 2000.

i did a quick look @ my electricity bill spreadsheet and right up until 6/2001 we were paying about 11 cents/kwh. after that, it spiked up to about 15 cents/kwh and, for the most part, has stayed that way since.

Sounds wonderful. Ours is more like 100% increase with the "compared to... so we increased you rate" bull. We've gone over $600 for electric alone - with no swimming pool. :blink:

when we were using a lot more electricity (since the rates are tiered) we were paying close to 100% more per kwh (see this post http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?s=&amp...ost&p=25676 ). "baseline" usage is only 350 kwh/month.

 

[ginigma]

Yeah, I picked up a Kill-a-watt meter a few weeks ago and have started to figure out how much it's costing me to leave all the computers on 24x7, plus all the other toys.

FYI I "think" you need to be careful about plugging a Kill-a-watt meter into a UPS. I remember seeing something about killing the meter and not the watt since it cant handle the waveform out of some UPS's.

If I come across what I read I will post it. Or maybe someone else remembers seeing this also.

Wow, thanks for that info. I guess that makes some sense, since it's not a true sine wave coming out of the UPS. That would definately screw up the power factor number.

 

[CollinR]

Depends on the UPS, only cheap ones that you probably shouldn't be using are effected by this.


You guys should all be using AVR UPS units. Basically line power just charges the batterys and a true sine inverter supplies power to everything plugged into it. Aside from the correct waveform this means the only device of concern is the battery charger as the rest of the system is very predictable.

 

[123]

I suppose home automation can account for cost-savings, by reducing energy consumption, but only if you control the top household energy consumers ... and lighting is typically not one of them.

I live in Quebec, Canada where we enjoy low electricity rates (~ $0.06/kwH) courtesy of Hydro-Quebec, our provincially owned and operated distributor of electricity (primarily derived from hydro-electric installations located in northern Quebec ... way north, like near James Bay). Most people in Quebec heat their home electrically (per room electric baseboards or central forced-air electric furnace) and use an electric water-heater (storage tank). A decent programmable thermostat takes care of lowering the temperature during the day and at night; you don't really need to HA to improve on that.

Hydro-Quebec offers a simple, online energy audit that results in a graph showing you your top household energy consumers. Typically, heating the home places first followed by generating hot-water. Lighting ends up down at the bottom of the list .. especially if you're using CFLs.

I guess the one place I may have saved money is running my pool pump for only eight hours a day. A 220V X10 appliance module has reliably turned the 1.5HP motor on and off for the last three years (OK, summers only ... I do live in Quebec).

I believe HA is great for enhancing one's comfort, safety, and convenience. Reducing energy consumption is not one of its core strengths.

 

[CollinR]

Thats why I called BS, 18% reduction by adding Insteon dimmers to prexisting florescent lighting is just not possible.

The major players barely even got mentioned.

Same methodology applied to other appliances such as Air Conditioning, Sprinkler System, Outside Lights and Pool Equipment.

No mention of hot water controls, dunno if they were automated.

 

[hult]

Yeah, I picked up a Kill-a-watt meter a few weeks ago and have started to figure out how much it's costing me to leave all the computers on 24x7, plus all the other toys.

FYI I "think" you need to be careful about plugging a Kill-a-watt meter into a UPS. I remember seeing something about killing the meter and not the watt since it cant handle the waveform out of some UPS's.

If I come across what I read I will post it. Or maybe someone else remembers seeing this also.

Wow, thanks for that info. I guess that makes some sense, since it's not a true sine wave coming out of the UPS. That would definately screw up the power factor number.

The P4400 Kill-A-Watt measures and computes a true V-I wattage (power) by independently measuring voltage and current 2^11 times a second and calculating the product of each pair of values. This sample frequency is fast enough to totalize over an actual waveform and doesn't assume that current is in phase with voltage. So if the power factor is "definately screw[ed] up", it quantifies that.

The potential for damage if using the p4400 (at least the early models) on 'modified sine' AC from an inverter or UPS is that the resistor in the Resistor-Capacitor network used to derive low voltage for the internal power supply overheats. The RC network is OK as long as the line voltage does not have the high-frequency harmonics as are found in 'chopped' AC that pass through the cap and overheat the resistor.

The new P4460 version may have a transformer to power the circuitry which would solve the problem. And they may have modified the P4400 over time (a higher wattage resistor would help) -- I dunno. I've used both mine (one very old, and one a recent purchase) on a variety of power supplies for a few seconds.

But don't leave it connected for very long when measuring 'modified sine' converters or you may let the smoke out of the case ...

... Marc

 

[bfisher]

I definitely save money every month on my HVAC. Lighting is for convenience only as I will never be able to recoup the expense of UPB... but my HVAC has paid for itself very quickly (in the winter I save more than $100 per month on gas from pre-automation bills). It hasn't paid off the entire automation system, but it is nice to see lower gas and electric bills every month.

The other way to look at it is if my automation helps secure my house and we never get burglarized, the savings from avoiding that situation definitely paid for itself