Why not rely on security motion sensors?
DIY Home Automation Full House Help
- Thread starter HomeTechNewbie
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Why not rely on security motion sensors?
tmbrown97
Senior Member
The difference with Security Motions is that they have to work harder to avoid false alarms, so they take longer to activate. For home automation, this can be an annoying delay and make it take longer for lights to activate, and it might not pick up someone hanging out in a room on a couch as well as an occupancy sensor would. It totally depends on what you are trying to accomplish automation-wise.
Very interesting. Can you please explain what "a dedicated hardwired system" means in terms of Home Automation? What kind of hardware are you talking about, what kind of wiring other than what the electricians would do, and how is it terminated into a H/A platform?
tmbrown97
Senior Member
The thing with the hardwired lighting systems is that they aren't as widely supported as the retrofit options; retrofit options have a larger target market and therefore more attention paid to them.
UPB, if done right (which seriously doesn't take much effort) is rock solid and one of the stronger protocols for larger installations. The effort taken to clean up a UPB system is less than running wire to each switch and finding comptatible control systems, IMHO.
UPB, if done right (which seriously doesn't take much effort) is rock solid and one of the stronger protocols for larger installations. The effort taken to clean up a UPB system is less than running wire to each switch and finding comptatible control systems, IMHO.
elvisimprsntr
Active Member
@HomeTechNewbie
I wish I had your disposable income. Are you looking to adopt a son? I only had $1000 USD to start with.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXmCiaRc9XU
Elvis
I wish I had your disposable income. Are you looking to adopt a son? I only had $1000 USD to start with.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXmCiaRc9XU
Elvis
SSNH
New Member
Hardwired residential lighting controls such as Centralite Elegance or Lutron Homeworks (there are few others) offer a couple benefits over using a powerline or RF solution, though as Work2Play stated, they aren't as prevalent in the market as the retrofit options. UPB is awesome, and I've installed a house your size using UPB and was very happy with how it went. The switches and modules do "click" because of their contained relay (whereas a hardwired system centralizes the mechanical junk and eliminates any aesthetically unfavorable noise due to relays or load on a dimmer). These systems typically only require HV wiring to the load from the control center and all control pads/switches are CATx. I believe that one of the main reasons (other than the stated demand for retrofit) that there isn't much attention paid to the hardwired systems is because they simply WORK without as many chances for the transport technology to fail/miss/delay as you may see in other schemes, and they are practically only light/fan controllers with little to no other functionality. I think the bottom line on operability and dependability goes to either hardwired or UPB, in that order.
I can't necessarily agree on the "finding" of a compatible control system, however, because in the scope of a job such as yours, there is no doubt I would go with an Elk M1 or HAI OPII, < if you're one of "those" HAI guys ;-) >
Someone with your background (I'm an MCSE network geek and computers are afraid of me, not the other way around) could couple a solid hardware control foundation with a front-end control solution such as Premise (FREE!)/Homeseer/CQC and accomplish virtually anything you described. With your electricians pulling all the wire (you lucky SOB), you have the fun stuff left!
P.S. - Premise REQUIRES Internet Explorer for it's native browser features due to the component add-on that installs at the client's first use, so your mini iPad scenario would not likely be an easy option.
and... Yes, you're nuts. Welcome to the club.
-Merek
I can't necessarily agree on the "finding" of a compatible control system, however, because in the scope of a job such as yours, there is no doubt I would go with an Elk M1 or HAI OPII, < if you're one of "those" HAI guys ;-) >
Someone with your background (I'm an MCSE network geek and computers are afraid of me, not the other way around) could couple a solid hardware control foundation with a front-end control solution such as Premise (FREE!)/Homeseer/CQC and accomplish virtually anything you described. With your electricians pulling all the wire (you lucky SOB), you have the fun stuff left!
- The above named (not just HAI) controllers DO require a PC for programming for several reasons
- Nuvo is a great centralized audio system with several options for source/output and integration and sounds EXCELLENT.
- Shielded CAT6 is EXPEN$IVE compared to CAT5, and IMHO offers very little to no benefit in the means of using it for databus or control purposes
- UPB or hardwired vs. RF (Z-types) is going to be most noted when creating and executing scenes/groups - UPB/Hardwired will be a more "instant on/off" experience, whereas the wireless technologies can produce a "popcorn" effect when performing functions such as an "all off". It should be noted, however, that Z-wave affords you the ability to control several different types of devices, not just lights/outlets, and can be combined with other technologies when the interfaces are paired up with a capable controller (so you can have the best of both worlds).
- IR distribution is easy and works well, simply integrating with the aforementioned systems (I'd recommend Global Cache devices). CATx cables accompanying HDMI cabling is as simple as it gets (be aware of limitations of HDMI cable lentgth and extenders). sic0048's take on the Wii/media source sounds spot-on.
- If you REALLY want to cut clutter and technological wall decorations, you can eliminate thermostats entirely and position hidden temperature probes and control everything via your desired interfaces with the controller coordinating HVAC per your defined "rules". This applies to audio keypads and several other controlled systems as well!
- Brush up on what Uninterruptable Power Supplies can cause in some powerline lighting systems and filters to combat same
- I like Work2Play's UniFi idea - I was going to recommend EnGenius PoE AP's, some of which come in a kit with an injector (strictly preference)
P.S. - Premise REQUIRES Internet Explorer for it's native browser features due to the component add-on that installs at the client's first use, so your mini iPad scenario would not likely be an easy option.
and... Yes, you're nuts. Welcome to the club.
-Merek
Sorry, I haven't logged in very often and just saw this question.
For HD video, I distribute RGB signals via an Autopatch video switcher in my house and an Extron video system in my parents house. Both work great with HD signals up to 1080i which is the highest source resolution that I currently have. I'm pretty sure that spec wise however, these types of units should be able to handle 1080p was well. RGB signal distribution has been much easier and cheaper than HDMI, so that is why I use that method. Plus, since the average person is looking for HDMI equipment, you can get this type of equipment used for a pretty low price.
For audio, in many zones I simply patch the audio from my sources through my whole house audio system (I use the B&K CT600/CT610 series). There are a couple of zones in each house that I run surround sound to (major TV watching locations), and in those zones I use Integra receivers and use either optical or coaxial digital audio. Again, because I don't care about HDMI switching, I can use less expensive/used receivers for these zones.
All this equipment has RS-232 control ports and protocols so I can use my automation system to tie all these seemingly unrelated systems together. I'm using CQC for that automation portion, but there are plenty of options out there.
jmorris644
Active Member
Part 1 of 2
I just found this post with your questions. This is going to be a long winded response. Sorry…
My background is almost identical to yours. I am a DIY with programming abilities. I had a 3[sup]rd[/sup] party help me plan the installation and pull all of the wiring. All of the rest of the installation I did myself. Including putting on all of the wire ends and installing all of the devices. I would highly recommend having an experienced 3[sup]rd[/sup] party look at your floor plans and help you with the wiring plans. I can assure you that I would have not thought of all of them.
In December of 2011 we moved into our house that we had spent over 2 years planning and building. (I have attached a picture.) Our house is 7000 sqft. The house is a walk-out on a lake. My intent was to spend the money now to build a house that would be minimal in operating costs when I am retired. I am 53. To that purpose we did some, for this area, unique things. These are a little OT but further on I will get to all of the electronics. I just wanted you to get a feel for the whole house. I live in Minnesota. (cold climate)
1. Geothermal - I ended up opting for vertical wells. We did 16 100' wells as part of the geothermal field. They are all under a previous asphalt driveway.
2. HVAC - obviously this is run by the Geothermal system but we also have a high efficiency boiler to heat the domestic drinking water and act as backup to the geothermal system if it fails. We also ran both in-floor radiant heat as well as forced air throughout the house.
3. Extra insulation - We sprayed closed-cel insulation on all outer walls and upper ceiling. We also used 1/2 inch foiled insulation board between the studs and the sheet rock. This eliminated any temperature "crawl" through the studs. This also meant that the electrician needed to space all boxes that were on the outside walls for the full 1" insulation and sheetrock boards depth. I can tell you that even though we have the largest house in the immediate area, according to our utility company, we are one of the lowest in the area in regards to utility expenses.
4. For the foundation we did Insulated Concrete Forms (ICF). No bugs are going to get through 8 inches of poured concrete encased in two 4 inch sides of Styrofoam insulation.
I think the only thing that we have not done yet is solar energy. I wanted to wait on that until the technology improved some more.
I just found this post with your questions. This is going to be a long winded response. Sorry…
My background is almost identical to yours. I am a DIY with programming abilities. I had a 3[sup]rd[/sup] party help me plan the installation and pull all of the wiring. All of the rest of the installation I did myself. Including putting on all of the wire ends and installing all of the devices. I would highly recommend having an experienced 3[sup]rd[/sup] party look at your floor plans and help you with the wiring plans. I can assure you that I would have not thought of all of them.
In December of 2011 we moved into our house that we had spent over 2 years planning and building. (I have attached a picture.) Our house is 7000 sqft. The house is a walk-out on a lake. My intent was to spend the money now to build a house that would be minimal in operating costs when I am retired. I am 53. To that purpose we did some, for this area, unique things. These are a little OT but further on I will get to all of the electronics. I just wanted you to get a feel for the whole house. I live in Minnesota. (cold climate)
1. Geothermal - I ended up opting for vertical wells. We did 16 100' wells as part of the geothermal field. They are all under a previous asphalt driveway.
2. HVAC - obviously this is run by the Geothermal system but we also have a high efficiency boiler to heat the domestic drinking water and act as backup to the geothermal system if it fails. We also ran both in-floor radiant heat as well as forced air throughout the house.
3. Extra insulation - We sprayed closed-cel insulation on all outer walls and upper ceiling. We also used 1/2 inch foiled insulation board between the studs and the sheet rock. This eliminated any temperature "crawl" through the studs. This also meant that the electrician needed to space all boxes that were on the outside walls for the full 1" insulation and sheetrock boards depth. I can tell you that even though we have the largest house in the immediate area, according to our utility company, we are one of the lowest in the area in regards to utility expenses.
4. For the foundation we did Insulated Concrete Forms (ICF). No bugs are going to get through 8 inches of poured concrete encased in two 4 inch sides of Styrofoam insulation.
I think the only thing that we have not done yet is solar energy. I wanted to wait on that until the technology improved some more.
Attachments
jmorris644
Active Member
Part 2 of 2
So here is how we automated the house. Technology choices first:
1. I wanted a system that was both DIY friendly and yet very solid. For a number of reasons I ended up with HAI. I found no software solution(CQC, etc) that I would have trusted.
2. Adding Haiku and Haiku Helper made all of the HAI functions available worldwide.
3. I used Nuvo MPS4 and Essentia. I could have used the GC but personally I did not see the advantage over the Essentia and the MPS. I have 16 zones throughout the house.
4. I used the RC2000 HAI thermostats with the remote temperature sensors. All of my thermostats (10 of them) are in the main control room. The RC2000s work great with the 3 stage HVAC that I have. The HVAC installers were actually very impressed with just the HVAC side of the thermostats and the setup options that were available. It is important to make sure these thermostats will work with your specific HVAC installation.
5. I installed 5.7e screens and controllers throughout the house. I also used the HAI camera servers with wired cameras. My experience with ip cameras in the past had left me with a bad taste in my mouth. The 5.7e screens will more than likely be replaced with iPad minis. I am working on that now using iRule.
6. I have 3 Tivo Premiers, all sitting in the control room. I am using a 4x8 HDMI matrix from Atlona. It has worked perfectly ever since I installed it.
7. For the theater I simply run a Denon in a 9.1 configuration. I use an Apple Mini Server that hosts all of my movies as well as Haiku Helper. I am using iRule to control all aspects of the theater. In the hallway entrance to the theater I have an iPad on the wall using LaunchPort and running iRule.
8. I am using open-mesh for all of my WIFI throughout the house. I have absolutely no dead areas. I even have a node in the detached garage which is on the other end of the property.
9. I use PCAccess for all of the HAI programming. It actually serves its purpose quite well.
I am sorry if this generates more questions than answers. But I will gladly share more if asked.
Joe
So here is how we automated the house. Technology choices first:
1. I wanted a system that was both DIY friendly and yet very solid. For a number of reasons I ended up with HAI. I found no software solution(CQC, etc) that I would have trusted.
2. Adding Haiku and Haiku Helper made all of the HAI functions available worldwide.
3. I used Nuvo MPS4 and Essentia. I could have used the GC but personally I did not see the advantage over the Essentia and the MPS. I have 16 zones throughout the house.
4. I used the RC2000 HAI thermostats with the remote temperature sensors. All of my thermostats (10 of them) are in the main control room. The RC2000s work great with the 3 stage HVAC that I have. The HVAC installers were actually very impressed with just the HVAC side of the thermostats and the setup options that were available. It is important to make sure these thermostats will work with your specific HVAC installation.
5. I installed 5.7e screens and controllers throughout the house. I also used the HAI camera servers with wired cameras. My experience with ip cameras in the past had left me with a bad taste in my mouth. The 5.7e screens will more than likely be replaced with iPad minis. I am working on that now using iRule.
6. I have 3 Tivo Premiers, all sitting in the control room. I am using a 4x8 HDMI matrix from Atlona. It has worked perfectly ever since I installed it.
7. For the theater I simply run a Denon in a 9.1 configuration. I use an Apple Mini Server that hosts all of my movies as well as Haiku Helper. I am using iRule to control all aspects of the theater. In the hallway entrance to the theater I have an iPad on the wall using LaunchPort and running iRule.
8. I am using open-mesh for all of my WIFI throughout the house. I have absolutely no dead areas. I even have a node in the detached garage which is on the other end of the property.
9. I use PCAccess for all of the HAI programming. It actually serves its purpose quite well.
I am sorry if this generates more questions than answers. But I will gladly share more if asked.
Joe
Dean Roddey
Senior Member
To be fair, it's not an either/or (CQC or Omni) issue. For most people it's a both/and situation, though you can of course have a purely CQC based system if you want.
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