Does NEC (code) require hardwired 3-way switches?

[Madcodger]

We're thinking of having some additional finishing work done on our basement, and had the electrician in this a.m. to do some planning and estimating. One of the new lighting circuits will light a new hallway between the basement outside entrace, down a wide hallway to a separate room. The electrician commented that we would need to run a new circuit to connect a three-way switch at the far end of the hallway, and I replied that we could just install a "slave" Insteon switch (my current technology, but some other automation flavors should work) at that end of the hall, wire it into the circuit of the switch already there for the room, and be done with it -- no need for a physical connection.

He said, "Nope, sorry. The NEC (National Electric Code) doesn't "recognize smart homes". I initially thought he was trying to say that the equipment doesn't meet UL ratings (his original statement) but when I noted that it absolutely did meet EITHER UL or ETL ratings, he said, "No, the equipment is OK, but the code REQUIRES that you have a hard-wired, physical connection betwen the two switches, on the same circuit". In other words, a plain old three-way switch.

I'm not so sure that's right... Can any of our fine electrician board members comment? I certainly understand the need for this prior to automation, but it just seems like a needless rule if the technologies many of us on this board use can be utilized. And I don't want to pay to run that extra wiring!

Thanks,

Joe

 

[hockeypuck]

We're thinking of having some additional finishing work done on our basement, and had the electrician in this a.m. to do some planning and estimating. One of the new lighting circuits will light a new hallway between the basement outside entrace, down a wide hallway to a separate room. The electrician commented that we would need to run a new circuit to connect a three-way switch at the far end of the hallway, and I replied that we could just install a "slave" Insteon switch (my current technology, but some other automation flavors should work) at that end of the hall, wire it into the circuit of the switch already there for the room, and be done with it -- no need for a physical connection.

He said, "Nope, sorry. The NEC (National Electric Code) doesn't "recognize smart homes". I initially thought he was trying to say that the equipment doesn't meet UL ratings (his original statement) but when I noted that it absolutely did meet EITHER UL or ETL ratings, he said, "No, the equipment is OK, but the code REQUIRES that you have a hard-wired, physical connection betwen the two switches, on the same circuit". In other words, a plain old three-way switch.

I'm not so sure that's right... Can any of our fine electrician board members comment? I certainly understand the need for this prior to automation, but it just seems like a needless rule if the technologies many of us on this board use can be utilized. And I don't want to pay to run that extra wiring!

Thanks,

Joe

well then I guess all those people that spend 40k on a lite touch system are screwed. I think your electrician may not be comfortable dealing with "smart" tech. If it is possible in running the three wire to the other switch , you might as well do it. Code article 210.70 is very vague. It says " at least one wall switch-controlled lighting outlet shall be installed in hallways, stairways... ect" It states nothing about how it controls that, just that it has to control the light. Like I said before, all of the low voltage light controls systems (Litetouch, Centralite, Colorado Vnet ect.) would then be illegal. Check with you local building inspector and if he says it is a rule then have him show it to you in writing.

 

[hult]

We're thinking of having some additional finishing work done on our basement, and had the electrician in this a.m. to do some planning and estimating. One of the new lighting circuits will light a new hallway between the basement outside entrace, down a wide hallway to a separate room. The electrician commented that we would need to run a new circuit to connect a three-way switch at the far end of the hallway, and I replied that we could just install a "slave" Insteon switch (my current technology, but some other automation flavors should work) at that end of the hall, wire it into the circuit of the switch already there for the room, and be done with it -- no need for a physical connection.

He said, "Nope, sorry. The NEC (National Electric Code) doesn't "recognize smart homes". I initially thought he was trying to say that the equipment doesn't meet UL ratings (his original statement) but when I noted that it absolutely did meet EITHER UL or ETL ratings, he said, "No, the equipment is OK, but the code REQUIRES that you have a hard-wired, physical connection betwen the two switches, on the same circuit". In other words, a plain old three-way switch.

I'm not so sure that's right... Can any of our fine electrician board members comment? I certainly understand the need for this prior to automation, but it just seems like a needless rule if the technologies many of us on this board use can be utilized. And I don't want to pay to run that extra wiring!

Thanks,

Joe

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Durn! It jist don't reach fur enough ... ;-)

But I would point him toward 210.70 (A) (1) Exception No. 2:
"Lighting outlets shall be permitted to be
controlled by occupancy sensors that are (1) in addition to
wall switches or (2) located at a customary wall switch
location and equipped with a manual override that will
allow the sensor to function as a wall switch."

And then ask him where in the NEC it uses the term "Smart" (It don't, nowhere.)

... Marc

 

[hult]

Code article 210.70 is very vague. It says " at least one wall switch-controlled lighting outlet shall be installed in hallways, stairways... ect" It states nothing about how it controls that, just that it has to control the light.

But alas, 404.2 does:

"404.2 Switch Connections.
(A) Three-Way and Four-Way Switches. Three-way and
four-way switches shall be wired so that all switching is
done only in the ungrounded circuit conductor. "

... Marc

 

[Digger]

I am not a "code expert" but I think that your electrician may be mistaken. However, he may have a point that we are missing.

He might be saying that you need the traveler there in case in the future you can no longer use a smart switch (not that an Insteon switch would ever die or anything). There may be something hidden in the code that you need lighting control at each end of a hall or staircase etc.

I agree you should ask your local code authority.

 

[Digger]

Code article 210.70 is very vague. It says " at least one wall switch-controlled lighting outlet shall be installed in hallways, stairways... ect" It states nothing about how it controls that, just that it has to control the light.

But alas, 404.2 does:

"404.2 Switch Connections.
(A) Three-Way and Four-Way Switches. Three-way and
four-way switches shall be wired so that all switching is
done only in the ungrounded circuit conductor. "

... Marc

Thats a basic safety requirement. No switching the neutral etc.

 

[upstatemike]

Code article 210.70 is very vague. It says " at least one wall switch-controlled lighting outlet shall be installed in hallways, stairways... ect" It states nothing about how it controls that, just that it has to control the light.

But alas, 404.2 does:

"404.2 Switch Connections.
(A) Three-Way and Four-Way Switches. Three-way and
four-way switches shall be wired so that all switching is
done only in the ungrounded circuit conductor. "

... Marc

I interpret this to mean you have to switch the hot wire and not the grounded neutral. If you run travelers for a traditional 3-way, you cannot wire them in such a way that it interrupts the grounded (neutral) connection. If the load switch switches the ungrounded hot wire and is activated by an HA controller (which a Smarthome slave is in this application) then 404.2 would not apply.

 

[hult]

Code article 210.70 is very vague. It says " at least one wall switch-controlled lighting outlet shall be installed in hallways, stairways... ect" It states nothing about how it controls that, just that it has to control the light.

But alas, 404.2 does:

"404.2 Switch Connections.
(A) Three-Way and Four-Way Switches. Three-way and
four-way switches shall be wired so that all switching is
done only in the ungrounded circuit conductor. "

... Marc

I interpret this to mean you have to switch the hot wire and not the grounded neutral. If you run travelers for a traditional 3-way, you cannot wire them in such a way that it interrupts the grounded (neutral) connection. If the load switch switches the ungrounded hot wire and is activated by an HA controller (which a Smarthome slave is in this application) then 404.2 would not apply.

That this geolgist agrees with you doesn't much matter ;-) What ultimately matters is the opinion of the Authority Having Jurisdction (aka inspector).

Note that when INSTEON switches and dimmers used are slaves, communication can be exclusively between switches, not necessarily "activated by an [separate] HA controller ".

I'd ask SmartHome/SmartLabs to provide a useful statement to present to AHJ's. They may have done so already. The majority of US and Canadian homes have basements, long hallways, or more than one storey so the majority of homes have this issue. Has the original poster checkd the Smarthome forum for answers to the question?

... Marc

 

[Sandpiper]

well then I guess all those people that spend 40k on a lite touch system are screwed. I think your electrician may not be comfortable dealing with "smart" tech. If it is possible in running the three wire to the other switch , you might as well do it. Code article 210.70 is very vague. It says " at least one wall switch-controlled lighting outlet shall be installed in hallways, stairways... ect" It states nothing about how it controls that, just that it has to control the light. Like I said before, all of the low voltage light controls systems (Litetouch, Centralite, Colorado Vnet ect.) would then be illegal. Check with you local building inspector and if he says it is a rule then have him show it to you in writing.

You are quoting 210.70(2)(a). But Further in the same article [210.70(2)&copy;], the code does require a switch at each end of a stairway, but does no mention hallways. However, there is an exception that follows which says this:

Exception to (a), (b), and &copy;: In hallways, stairways, and outdoor entrances, remote, central, or automatic control of lighting shall be permitted.

Ask you electrician to look at this section. He ought to have his code book handy.

 

[MikeB]

He may be wrong (and probably is), but I'd probably hardwire the 3-way circuit anyway - just in case you replace the switches at some point with something non-Insteon.

 

[Herdfan]

He may be wrong (and probably is), but I'd probably hardwire the 3-way circuit anyway - just in case you replace the switches at some point with something non-Insteon.

I agree. Having the extra traveler is cheap insurance.

 

[hockeypuck]

well then I guess all those people that spend 40k on a lite touch system are screwed. I think your electrician may not be comfortable dealing with "smart" tech. If it is possible in running the three wire to the other switch , you might as well do it. Code article 210.70 is very vague. It says " at least one wall switch-controlled lighting outlet shall be installed in hallways, stairways... ect" It states nothing about how it controls that, just that it has to control the light. Like I said before, all of the low voltage light controls systems (Litetouch, Centralite, Colorado Vnet ect.) would then be illegal. Check with you local building inspector and if he says it is a rule then have him show it to you in writing.

You are quoting 210.70(2)(a). But Further in the same article [210.70(2)©], the code does require a switch at each end of a stairway, but does no mention hallways. However, there is an exception that follows which says this:

Exception to (a), (B), and ©: In hallways, stairways, and outdoor entrances, remote, central, or automatic control of lighting shall be permitted.

Ask you electrician to look at this section. He ought to have his code book handy.

I think you nailed it. It sounds like your electrician does not have a leg to stand on, but he may just be following the local authorities rules.

 

[CollinR]

Check with you local building inspector and if he says it is a rule then have him show it to you in writing.

In bold is something I suggest you NOT do assuming you want this project completed in a reasonable timeframe. Those guys can become PITA royal! Play dumb and that you are asking for help as you are too ignorant to understand the codes and their almightly knowledge and power can help you save the day.


Seriously keep that guy/gal on your side.

 

[DavidL]

Agreed with CollinR on the relationship with the inspector!

Lots of coffee and donuts for each conversation.

If push comes to shove (you can't bend anymore) rephrase and tell him you don't have the best memory, so is there something written that you can follow so you do exactly what he is telling you to do?

 

[hockeypuck]

I deal with local authorities of at least 6 different towns. I am on very good terms with all of them, but they do and should have any "above and beyond code" requirements printed out, ready to be handed out with permits. You can very politely ask them for such a list when you go to get the permit, which sets the ground rules (ie the permitee is not a moron, so please do not treat me like one).