doesn't have to be red

v1rtu0s1ty

Senior Member
Ok guys, I spoke to our fire marshall today and he told me that the 18/4 wire should be fire rated and color red. He actually told me that gauge should be 14. B) Well, if it's 110v :( So he told me that 18 gauge would be fine if the smoke detector does not draw 110v power.

I've got following recommendations:
- smoke sensor Napco 4-Wire Firewolf
- System Sensor 4WB

Which of the 2 is better? And they don't use 110v right?

For my main question, I'm deciding which 22/4 solid to buy. AutomatedOutlet is selling fire rated Coleman 22/4 wire. Am I correct that for motion sensors, water sensors, co and heat, the wire doesn't have to be fire rated right?

Thanks!
 
I've got following recommendations:
- smoke sensor Napco 4-Wire Firewolf
- System Sensor 4WB

I went with a 2 wire detector. Maybe someone else can chime in.


Am I correct that for motion sensors, water sensors, co and heat, the wire doesn't have to be fire rated right?


Correct but I found myself using the fire wire for other sensors, since I had it. It can be confusing hooking them up in the panel though. I'm a firm believer on getting red for smokes.
 
tech-home said:
I've got following recommendations:
- smoke sensor Napco 4-Wire Firewolf
- System Sensor 4WB

I went with a 2 wire detector. Maybe someone else can chime in.


Am I correct that for motion sensors, water sensors, co and heat, the wire doesn't have to be fire rated right?


Correct but I found myself using the fire wire for other sensors, since I had it. It can be confusing hooking them up in the panel though. I'm a firm believer on getting red for smokes.
I couldn't remember, answer must be burried somewhere on my other thread or on my emails. I remember that if you use 2 wire smoke detector, it cannot be monitored per device. That's why, I went with 4wire smoke detector.

I'll dedicate red fire wire just for smoke. Assuming, everything is installed on a wiring closet and I used firewire for other sensors, that's get really confusing. B)
 
all 2 wire detectors must go on Zone 16. 4 wire detetors can be put on any zone with one or more on the same zone if you want. Some people prefer this so they know where the detector is that went off.

You can tell which detecotr tripped with the 2 wires by looking at each detectors little red LED and see if its blinking (same goes for the 4 wires as well).

I prefer 4 wire and have the system announce the location of the fire. Just a personel preference.
 
Digger said:
all 2 wire detectors must go on Zone 16. 4 wire detetors can be put on any zone with one or more on the same zone if you want. Some people prefer this so they know where the detector is that went off.

You can tell which detecotr tripped with the 2 wires by looking at each detectors little red LED and see if its blinking (same goes for the 4 wires as well).

I prefer 4 wire and have the system announce the location of the fire. Just a personel preference.
Aahh, zone 16 reminded me that answers. Thanks Digger. I'll actually go with 4 wire too. I have 2 products above, which brand do you recommend? And am I correct that those 4 smoke sensors that we are installing does not use 110v?
 
Digger said:
all 2 wire detectors must go on Zone 16. 4 wire detetors can be put on any zone with one or more on the same zone if you want. Some people prefer this so they know where the detector is that went off.

You can tell which detecotr tripped with the 2 wires by looking at each detectors little red LED and see if its blinking (same goes for the 4 wires as well).

I prefer 4 wire and have the system announce the location of the fire. Just a personel preference.
Aahh, zone 16 reminded me that answers. Thanks Digger. I'll actually go with 4 wire too. I have 2 products above, which brand do you recommend? And am I correct that those 4-wire smoke sensors that we are installing does not use 110v?
 
The 4 wire detectors must be rated for 12 Vdc that the panel SAUX is rated. I use the System Sensor 4WB but there are many good detectors out there.
 
Digger said:
The 4 wire detectors must be rated for 12 Vdc that the panel SAUX is rated. I use the System Sensor 4WB but there are many good detectors out there.
Thanks again Digger! You've been very helpful to me. I wish I can invite you for a drink B)
 
v1rtu0s1ty said:
Digger said:
The 4 wire detectors must be rated for 12 Vdc that the panel SAUX is rated. I use the System Sensor 4WB but there are many good detectors out there.
Thanks again Digger! You've been very helpful to me. I wish I can invite you for a drink B)
Just remember you need the EOL relays for each detector as well when using a 4-wire detector if I remember that correctly.

I got the 2-wire system sensors. I had a theory that you could monitor which one triggered it, by using wire from the remote annunciator outputs on the detectors back to the elk, but I did not test this (also adds a lot of wiring, but would be cheaper as you avoid the EOL relay which if I remember can be $12-$20 per detector or something like that, and not a significant amount more wire than a 4 wire install assuming one to a zone). Now in hindsight, regardless of cost, 4 wire smokes probably would have been easier to test and troubleshoot.

After $450 or so, what is another $70-$140? However, I am sure many of my issues stemmed from my lack of experience.

I would have thought you would use fire wire for heat detectors as well. Then again those are property protection, not life safety...
 
Mike said:
I got the 2-wire system sensors. I had a theory that you could monitor which one triggered it, by using wire from the remote annunciator outputs on the detectors back to the elk, but I did not test this (also adds a lot of wiring, but would be cheaper as you avoid the EOL relay which if I remember can be $12-$20 per detector or something like that, and not a significant amount more wire than a 4 wire install assuming one to a zone). Now in hindsight, regardless of cost, 4 wire smokes probably would have been easier to test and troubleshoot.

After $450 or so, what is another $70-$140? However, I am sure many of my issues stemmed from my lack of experience.

I would have thought you would use fire wire for heat detectors as well. Then again those are property protection, not life safety...
The relay was mentioned the other day that it is not mandatory. I don't know though what's going to happen if I don't include it in my system.
 
I missed that. Hmm, that takes away a slight cost drawback to 4 wire smokes.

Given this and my experiences, if I was to do it over I'd go 4-wire smokes. Inputs are 'cheap' and you get the right level of granularity if anything happens.

Oh well, my next elk install :D
 
In my opinion you really should use th relays. They supervise the power to the smokes. Without them you would not know that you lost power to the smokes and lost your protection.

I beleive the main difference in a relay for smoke supervision and one that is not specifically for that is that the smoke supervision relay has been tested for operation in an undervoltage /overvoltage condition and maybe at lower and higher temperatures (ambients). They then charge about 5 times as much.
 
Found out yesterday from builder that they were required by builder to install smoke detectors and sprinkler systems that have a mechanism that automatically contacts their telephone number in case of fire. I think, this the reason why I'm seeing a strobe light with fire label in front of every new houses that was just built. Could it be possible?

Assuming it's true, then I don't need speaker/siren anymore right?
 
v1rtu0s1ty said:
Found out yesterday from builder that they were required by builder to install smoke detectors and sprinkler systems that have a mechanism that automatically contacts their telephone number in case of fire. I think, this the reason why I'm seeing a strobe light with fire label in front of every new houses that was just built. Could it be possible?

Assuming it's true, then I don't need speaker/siren anymore right?
Hmmm, not sure here. Are you saying that the builder is putting in a system that will control the sprinkler systems and notify some authority (via phone interface?) if a fire occurs??

I'm not sure how you would interface to that via the Elk (or even if they would let you). Also, I'm wondering how the two systems (theirs and your Elk's)would "compete" over the telephone line.

Curious where you live that they require such stringent fire protection codes. I mean don't get me wrong, that's great, I just never heard of these requirements before. Wonder if this is something new?

This isn't a "commercial" property correct (i.e. just your home)?
 
BraveSirRobbin said:
Hmmm, not sure here. Are you saying that the builder is putting in a system that will control the sprinkler systems and notify some authority (via phone interface?) if a fire occurs??
Hi BSR,

I found out today from builder that there is no mechanism to contact the fire department. I received wrong information previously.
 
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