Dumb Question?

[TommyJames]

I have a dumb question, maybe it is bc I'm new to HA (haven't even installed a single device yet) and maybe it is bc I have read and reread this and other forums over and over again.
 
Today, it seems that controllers like ISY are so powerful that most folks are running ruling their HA rules on them instead of on the ELK and simple using the ELK as a sensor and security product.
 
Question

 

[TommyJames]

Sorry, my post got submitted before I was done:
 
Question:  If I'm using an ISY or Vera, do I need a system like the ELK today or could you purchase a 'cheaper/simpler' alarm panel do to smoke, doors, windows, glass break, etc?

 

[Madcodger]

It's really up to you... The Elk integrates well with ISY but you can certainly get by nicely w/o having them speak to each other, but it depends on what you want to do. For example, I have several routines that turn on lights as a door is opened. You need some way to detect that door opening, and the security system is a natural fit for that.

There are also times when the Elk still does a better job with some rules / routines than the ISY, in my opinion. For example, I find the Elk is better at acting on CHANGES in state than the ISY (i.e., a door opens rather than a door IS open). Can you program around that? Probably - but I find it easier to just write those routines (Rules) in the Elk rather than the ISY.

What many people find is that once they get into automation they want to control more and more. Starting with a system that can't be upgraded can result in just scrapping that system a year or so down the line, at a higher end cost for the same result.

 

[TommyJames]

Thanks Madcodger!

One routine I want to write is if the panel detects a FIRE then turn on all the lights. It sounds like the Elk panel will be better suited for those kinds of rules?

Also, if I'm writing rules in both isy and elk, do I need two insteon plm? One for Elk and one for ISY?

Thanks again!

 

[tmbrown97]

I run both - software and hardware.  I do 98% in the Elk and 2% in Elve... the stuff Elk doesn't do as well. 
 
One reason for the elk that's nice is that anything the Elk controls, so does anything else that controls the Elk... meaning if I want iPhone control, I buy eKeypad and now have access to my Elk and everything connected to it with 2 minutes of configuration; keypads, HVAC, lighting, sprinklers, garage doors, etc.  Same on the PC - fire up ElkRM or M1toGo and I have access to everything.
 
Behind the scenes, I also have Elve running so I can someday toss in some customized touchscreens and also to run rules in the background.
 
I use a PIM on both systems so each has direct access to lighting - there are some advantages especially when using Elk/UPB.  Each can use the lighting controls natively.
 
If you don't need all that or you need to save money, getting a DSC or somethign the ISY supports may be an option too, but check closely to see what each can control to make sure that rules that cross between devices are easy enough to program.
 
To expand on the automatic lights - I do that too; on alarm, all lights on or flashing (depending on arm status/type); when opening a door while alarm is armed and it's dark, light a path into the house; arm house, all lights off at end of countdown timer... plus a step further; non-alarm zone contacts on a few doors in the house - in hall closet, turns light on/off; on young kids' doors - alerts us if kids are leaving their rooms in the middle of the night, and also turns on the bathroom lights for them at a dim level, and turns them off when they go back to bed... it works really well and provides extra piece of mind.

 

[Madcodger]

One routine I want to write is if the panel detects a FIRE then turn on all the lights. It sounds like the Elk panel will be better suited for those kinds of rules?
Also, if I'm writing rules in both isy and elk, do I need two insteon plm? One for Elk and one for ISY?

As W2P notes, the Elk panel can certainly turn on all lights in the event of an alarm if connected to the ISY via the Elk module for ISY (well, all Insteon lights, anyway - or zWave if you go that route - it can't work with regular switches, which I think you understand).

You would have a PLM on only the ISY. You don't need one on the ISY in this configuration. The ISY communicates with Elk via the Elk module for ISY, even if the Rule is in Elk. So you can have rules / programs in either controller (Elk or ISY), using both controller's unique capabilities. Just don't let them conflict with each other by trying to have a Rule (Elk) trying to do the same thing as a program in ISY.

And welcome to the addiction!