Elk – What do I need?

[BraveSirRobbin]

The EOL voltage span for a zone to be "not violated" is pretty large (I'm thinking it's around a five volt span). I don't have my Elk to play around with anymore, but I do remember their was a large span. I would just try the EOL that you have and see where it registers as far as voltage to that zone. If it's not close to the low and high "trip" points (someone help me here, but I'm remembering 3.5 and 8 volts???) you could probably use as is. You can see this zone voltage setting from the front panel menu in the setup software.

 

[jlehnert]

Thanks for the clarification, but to be totally clear, you only need the reversing relay if there is MORE than 1 smoke on the zone, right? If you have only one 4 wire smoke per zone, you only need the EOLR for power supervision, correct? I mean, if its the only detector and it trips, its own sounder will still go off without the reversing relay. correct?

Correct, but most inspectors require ALL smokes to sound, not just the ones activated. It's an incorrect reading of the code, but extremely common. As mentioned many times before, this is one it's better to find out about BEFORE installation.

 

[carry15+1]

The EOL voltage span for a zone to be "not violated" is pretty large (I'm thinking it's around a five volt span). ....., but I'm remembering 3.5 and 8 volts???)

Manual shows 4.0 to 8.8 as being "ready". I have the designated 2.2k EOLR in my system and most zones read 7.1 to 7.4 volts. If your existing EOL resistors are less than 2.2k you could add series resistance at the panel. If they are more than 2.2k, like my old Caddx install with 3.3k, you can, as suggested, just try it with them and if that doesn't work you'll have to dig them out. The thing is, with higher resistance EOL resistors I believe the voltage is going to rise, and likely put you out of range, or at least borderline alarm all the time.

I may be totally wrong, but I would hope professional installers would be installing EOL resistors, and in the appropriate place (at the end of the line).

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Why couldn't you just put a parallel resistor in to lower the value if it's to high?

 

[BDHall]

BraveSirRobbin,

You commented about not having your Elk to play around with anymore. I was curious as to what led you away from the Elk, did you find something you liked better?

I have had my M1G for a while now and have been pleased with it, although I have not used any of its security features yet. I am using the M1G and HomeSeer for home automation and so far this seems to be a pretty good combination. I hope the M1G turns out to be a dependable, solid, long term solution for I/O. I am interested in any thoughts you (or others) might have on this combination, do you think this was a good way to go?

Thanks for the help and advice you provide for so many.

Brian

 

[sic0048]

I may be totally wrong, but I would hope professional installers would be installing EOL resistors, and in the appropriate place (at the end of the line).

Well you are right, but many people have systems installed by ADT, and I'm not sure I would call the ADT installers professionals.

Kidding aside, most installers either don't use EOL resistors or stick them at the panel which makes them totally ineffective. It makes the system work, but dones't actually monitor the line which is the whole point of EOL resistors.

 

[upstatemike]

And don't forget that fire circuits MUST have their EOL resistors at the last device so you get a trouble if something on the circuit comes loose. (And of course EOL relays on circuits with 4 wire smokes). Cheating on fire circuits is dangerous!

 

[upstatemike]

I have had my M1G for a while now and have been pleased with it, although I have not used any of its security features yet. I am using the M1G and HomeSeer for home automation and so far this seems to be a pretty good combination.

Which Elk plugin are you using and how is the response time for hard wired motion sensors controlling lights through Homeseer?

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

BraveSirRobbin,

You commented about not having your Elk to play around with anymore. I was curious as to what led you away from the Elk, did you find something you liked better?

I have had my M1G for a while now and have been pleased with it, although I have not used any of its security features yet. I am using the M1G and HomeSeer for home automation and so far this seems to be a pretty good combination. I hope the M1G turns out to be a dependable, solid, long term solution for I/O. I am interested in any thoughts you (or others) might have on this combination, do you think this was a good way to go?

Thanks for the help and advice you provide for so many.

Brian

Hi Brian;

I should have clarified that statement, sorry. I put in a system for my friend who was building his custom home and selected the Elk M1 Gold. I purchased it a few months in advance and had it mocked up on my bench testing/learning its various features and programming. I also used HomeSeer as the interface and have tried both MarkL's Elk Plugin and Electron's My.Elk plugin.

I really like the Elk M1 and feel it gives you the most versatility as a security system and a home automation hardware "backbone".

After I mocked the system up, I helped run all the low voltage wiring to a dedicated wiring closet. Then I installed the system in his home.

So, I only play around with it remotely when something needs changed or added. That's why I don't have it around at my home to "play around with".

When I selected a home security/automation system for my home (over three years ago) the Elk M1 wasn't out yet so I went with a Caddx NX8e for security and an Ocelot with SECU16I (digital input) and RLY8XA (relay output) modules. I also incorporated a PHAnderson analog to digital converter.

I used HomeSeer (version 1.7) to integrate all of this together. I DID hardwire some inputs and outputs together between the Caddx and Ocelot modules so they could "talk" to each other without the need for a computer interface.

This is the main reason I like the Elk M1. It has both a security system AND home automation capability using the same programming scheme (and all can be done without "needing" a computer). I just use a computer for the "ginger bread", non-critical stuff, though I have to admit that the only time my HomeSeer computer is down is when I intentionaly reboot it for windows updates.

Because I have two systems for HA and Security (Elk M1 and Ocelot) I have to learn TWO programming languages and that represents a little complexity that just goes away with the ELk.

I DO like some features of the Ocelot over the Elk, especially with the use of nested timers. I just plain hate the Caddx programming, but it is a very reliable and proven system.

If the Elk would just incorporate TWO features into their hardware, I would purchase it and rip out all of my existing hardware. The first feature I (and many others) would love is a way to better incorporate analog to digital inputs and a way to bypass the internal "pull-up" resistor, and a better way to incorporate the digital readings (bits or converted units) in their programming.

The second feature I would like is a timer capability that rivaled that of the Ocelot's. Now before anyone replies stating "but the Elk M1 has over xxx amount of timers" all I can say is get familiar with the Ocelot's capabilities and you will see what I mean . I have programmed them both.

Of course you CAN implement an Ocelot with the Elk via a serial interface (which I would probably do if I did purchase one).

Overall though if I was starting out new right now I would select the Elk M1. It offers a lot of capabilities and is expandable for future applications. Plus the Elk is constantly incorporating new features. For instance they are working on a one-wire interface and they have also recently incorporated W800 RF receiver interface as well.

 

[carry15+1]

Why couldn't you just put a parallel resistor in to lower the value if it's to high?

You could. But if you have access to the EOL you might just as well replace it as parallel another resistor.

 

[upstatemike]

I think he means to put the parallel resistor at the panel.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I think he means to put the parallel resistor at the panel.

 

[BDHall]

I have had my M1G for a while now and have been pleased with it, although I have not used any of its security features yet. I am using the M1G and HomeSeer for home automation and so far this seems to be a pretty good combination.

Which Elk plugin are you using and how is the response time for hard wired motion sensors controlling lights through Homeseer?

I have been using Electron's "my.elk.txt" script which works very well.

I have started looking at Ultrajones "Ultra ElkM1G HSPI". It is not complete yet but is looking very good so far.

I have not done any testing to determine the exact delays associated with the use of the script but from what I have seen, I have no complaints.

I was originally reading my hardwired sensors and controlling the lighting through HomeSeer but I am now letting the Elk do a little more of the work. I am still working on my lighting, hope to do some more this next week since I will have some time off.

I am working towards controlling my lighting directly from the Elk, hardwired switches and motion sensors connected to Elk zones and Elk outputs controlling the lights. There is a little delay between when a switch is pressed and when the light comes on but it is not been a problem for us so far. There is a setting in the Elk that can improve the response time, the factory setting was pretty slow. I decided to control my lighting through the Elk so that in the event my PC goes down, I will not loose control of my lights.

I have been pleased with both HomeSeer and the Elk and I like the flexability that this combination allows using a script or plug-in to bridge the two.

Brian