Elk Help! Pre-purchase questions

[project_x]

After reading all the good things that you can do with an Elk M1Gold, I am thinking about biting the bullet and installing one as a retrofit in my home.

I currently have a Honeywell Vista 15P with about 22 sensors, 1 keypad, 1 siren, with phone monitoring.

If I want to swap out the 15P and replace it with an Elk, what else do I need besides the Elk M1GSYS-4 kit? do I need anything to adapt to the 15p sensors? What do I need to connect to a PC (for communications, serial would suffice as my panel is right next to my server rack)?


Thanks,
Rob

 

[Digger]

After reading all the good things that you can do with an Elk M1Gold, I am thinking about biting the bullet and installing one as a retrofit in my home.

I currently have a Honeywell Vista 15P with about 22 sensors, 1 keypad, 1 siren, with phone monitoring.

If I want to swap out the 15P and replace it with an Elk, what else do I need besides the Elk M1GSYS-4 kit? do I need anything to adapt to the 15p sensors? What do I need to connect to a PC (for communications, serial would suffice as my panel is right next to my server rack)?


Thanks,
Rob

If they are hardwired sensors you should be in good shape. If they are wireless ELK doe not support the Ademco wireless (at this time). You may want to ask Spanky if there is any truth to some speculation that ELK may support Ademco wireless in the near future. I have heard it from more than one person but not from ELK themselves.

For the wired sensors the Vista 15P uses 2200 ohm the same as the M1G (except for Zone 16 if you use 2 wire smokes).

 

[project_x]

If they are hardwired sensors you should be in good shape. If they are wireless ELK doe not support the Ademco wireless (at this time). You may want to ask Spanky if there is any truth to some speculation that ELK may support Ademco wireless in the near future. I have heard it from more than one person but not from ELK themselves.

For the wired sensors the Vista 15P uses 2200 ohm the same as the M1G (except for Zone 16 if you use 2 wire smokes).

Mine are all wired, I''l have to check on smoke alarms.

 

[tmbrown97]

OK then - you should be pretty good - a serial cable can connect to the M1 (though I really like having the M1XEP)... You'll need to connect the keypad - as long as you have 4 wires you should be fine - but it's better if you have Cat5. Just confirm that your zones are either 2200Ohm or NC/NO so you know how to configure the zones. Also, with 22 sensors, you'll need another input expander. Depending on what other types of accessories you may want to add, you'd want to consider a data bus hub - but for just the keypad and single input expander, I wouldn't bother.

 

[Digger]

He may not need an input expander. The previous installer may have put more than one sensor on a zone (and probably did not home run them). The Vista 15P has 8 on board zones if I remember correctly and there may or may not be an Ademco Zone expander (4228 I think). There are probably more than one window on a zone etc. There is no problem leaving them that way since the wire is already run.

 

[tmbrown97]

Very true... if there's more than 16 (15 if you want smoke) at the panel, then he'd need an expander. Or, depending on how the EOL resistors are wired, he could possibly join some as well at the panel if it keeps the number down.

 

[project_x]

Here's an update, I would like to build a system that will allow me to duplicate my current security system, while allowing me to monitor and program with a PC (in addition to phone monitoring) and added automation over time.

My system as 33 connections, including siren, keypad, wireless receiver (for a keyfob). So in fact it is 33 wires, which look like they go into two expansion boxes.

So beyond the Elk M1GSYS-4 kit, what will I need to get to start?

 

[tmbrown97]

sounds like you'd need an input zone expander and you'd probably need to get the GE wireless expander and their keyfob, since as Digger said, the ademco wouldn't be compatible... There are other options as well, but that's the most off-the-shelf.

 

[project_x]

sounds like you'd need an input zone expander and you'd probably need to get the GE wireless expander and their keyfob, since as Digger said, the ademco wouldn't be compatible... There are other options as well, but that's the most off-the-shelf.

I'll skip the fob, I've never used it. It came with the house : ).

 

[Lagerhead]

My system as 33 connections...

Before committing your purchase, consider the possibility of combining some of your sensors into a smaller number of zones. This can be done rather readily if you don't have complications, such as discrete EOL resistors, and if you are willing to do the required terminations or splices. For example, if you have three windows in one room, each currently with its own zone, you can easily combine them into one zone for the whole room in your new system, saving the cost and complexity of an expander -or- (more likely) freeing some zones on your expander for other more interesting functions.

 

[alarmguy]

FYI

Just to clarify. The Ademco Vista15P uses 2000 Ohm EOL's. As do all Vista series panels. And are NOT compatible with the ELK M1G.

 

[tmbrown97]

I had read somewhere that the elk would still work if it's close enough... but worst case, you could add another 200ohm at the panel without losing the benefits of the EOL.

Lagerhead is right about combining zones - but if they truly have properly placed EOL resistors, you can't really combine them that way - you'd either have to mess with the EOL resistors, or just give them their own zone again. You can validate this with a continuity tester. If they're just showing a straight short, then they don't have the EOL and you can combine zones and just not worry about the EOL resistor value.

 

[Lagerhead]

I had read somewhere that the elk would still work if it's close enough... but worst case, you could add another 200ohm at the panel without losing the benefits of the EOL.

I too would be surprised if they did not work, there is a 4-volt leeway in an Elk zone's EOL voltage band. Not incidentally, 2,000 ohms is not one of the standard 10%-tolerance values; I don't believe I have ever seen one of these. Anyway, does the incompatibility result purely from the resistor value?

 

[Digger]

FYI

Just to clarify. The Ademco Vista15P uses 2000 Ohm EOL's. As do all Vista series panels. And are NOT compatible with the ELK M1G.

I have a Vista 20P here new in the box I just opened to check and it has 2.2K ohm resistors (red, red, red, gold). This is new stock from the past few weeks from ADI. I havent put in an Ademco panel in a few years so I am not sure if there was a change but I dont remember reading about one.

Edit:

I found an older Safewatch 3000 also from Ademco with 2 K resistors. Not sure how old it is as it was removed from service a few years ago.

Second Edit:

Online docs for Honeywell/Ademco state 2K resistors for the 2 Vista panels I checked.

 

[smoov]

Here's an update, I would like to build a system that will allow me to duplicate my current security system, while allowing me to monitor and program with a PC (in addition to phone monitoring) and added automation over time.

My system as 33 connections, including siren, keypad, wireless receiver (for a keyfob). So in fact it is 33 wires, which look like they go into two expansion boxes.

So beyond the Elk M1GSYS-4 kit, what will I need to get to start?

Following suggestions above about combining sensors into zones, I think you are OK with just the kit. The M1 has a serial port on the panel for connecting your PC. I had to get a USB to Serial converter to use my laptop that doesn't have an old school serial port.

Good luck with the retrofit. Don't forget to label everything!