ELK M1 system design help

[avjunkies]

Hi all,
 
 
I'm am trying to get recommendations for an overall system design.  I plan on integrating an ELK M1 controller and can't decide between the lutron or leviton integration.  I have experience with Lutron radiora and was thinking about using that for my lighting control with the ELK M1 lutron integration using ekeypad apps.  However I would like to leverage a lot of the z-wave devices throughout the house for other things such as electric locks, pool pump controls, sprinkler controls, etc.  I like the reliability of lutron, but not the price and plan on using z-wave devices in the system anyway.  My question is for those who have a lot of experience with leviton and z-wave devices with the ELK M1. 
 
Does the leviton z-wave dimmers/lighting controls work well? 
Is the response slow?
Are there any scalibility issues (house is 6000 sq feet) 
Any integration issues or problematic issues (status polling, scene programming, etc) with using the ELK M1 Leviton serial intergration?
Finally, can you successfully use the ELK M1 Leviton z-wave capability with other z-wave devices (non-leviton devices) such as electric locks, pool pump, sprinkler controls, etc?
 
Thanks so much for the help!!! 

 

[drvnbysound]

Does the leviton z-wave dimmers/lighting controls work well? 

 
I don't have any problems.
 

Is the response slow?

Not to me.
 

Are there any scalibility issues (house is 6000 sq feet)

I've read some threads where it's been suggested to stay below a certain number of Zwave devices; I don't recall what that number is off the top of my head, but I know it was designed for more. Nonetheless, I know that I was no where close to whatever the number was. For some reason I want to guess that it was like 75; I believe I'm still under 20. 
 

Any integration issues or problematic issues (status polling, scene programming, etc) with using the ELK M1 Leviton serial intergration?

I bought devices that don't support automatic status updating (I didn't realize this at the time). So, if we use any of those devices locally (e.g. manually turn on a light) the Elk is not aware that the light is on. I could reduce this by polling. The issue for me is how often would I have/need to poll for accurate tracking of this? Personally, I'd want to do it every 5 minutes or less. That said, I didn't want to poll the network that often... mainly because I do have the battery powered locks (deadbolts) and I wasn't sure how much that would effect those batteries. As is they seem to last me around 6 months before I swap them out; they may be able to last longer, but I'd prefer to swap them when I begin to notice the lock being a bit sluggish... compared to the alternative of possibly being locked out and having to use a key - I'd have to look for one of those.
 
I really haven't gotten into Scene Programming. I was going to do a couple of things at one point, but found the information in the manual wasn't quite what I was experiencing; there seemed to be some information missing. I contacted both Elk and Leviton about this and both pointed fingers in the other direction. I might have found the right information in the end, but I haven't had the time to do anything more with it.
 

Finally, can you successfully use the ELK M1 Leviton z-wave capability with other z-wave devices (non-leviton devices) such as electric locks, pool pump, sprinkler controls, etc?

 
The only devices I'm currently using are dimmers, switches, receptacles, lamp modules, and deadbolts. I don't have a pool, so no need for anything there. I do plan to add a Zwave thermostat. For sprinklers, personally I plan to look at a WGL Rain8net device (http://www.wgldesigns.com/index.html). Most likely the RS232 model; I prefer any wired protocol where possible.
 
The only reason that I went with Zwave was because UPB doesn't offer deadbolts and I didn't want to have to deal with mixing lighting technologies... even though others have done it successfully.

 

[avjunkies]

Thank you so much drvnbysound!!!
 
Well you answered a really important question with regard to non-leviton z-wave devices.  I think my plan is to go radiora2 for the lighting and z-wave/rs-232 for all other non-lighting related devices.  I've been thinking about the HAI omnipro II with UPB (I've heard of realiability issues) , but I think I like the idea of wireless lighting vs using the neutral line on power.  If I need expandability I think all I need to do is add another lutron main repeater. 
 
Any lutron radiora2 guys out there that have it successfully integrated with the elk m1?  I think I read somewhere that there are polling/status issues between the radiora2 and ELK M1?  Can anyone think of any limitations or issues that they ran into?  I'm trying to get as much reliability as possible.  This will likely be my demo for customers and want to make sure that whatever choose that it's not steering me in a direction with constitant customer calls.  Thanks !!!!

 

[tmbrown97]

FWIW, UPB is very reliable when installed correctly.  I've had it for 5 years with no issues at all - and compared to Z-Wave, I've never had to rebuild links or do any maintenance; and even all my light/appliance modules that I break out only for the holidays and move around the house at will always work perfectly.
 
One of the main issues that comes into play with mixing any two lighting technologies is that the M1 only has 256 Lighting Space Addresses, as based on the original X10 lighting.  If you open up the manual for the XSP you'll see tables on how it applies lighting and scene addresses onto these 256 addresses; if you have RA2 using addresses 1-100 you have to go out of your way when incorporating Z-Wave to make sure it only uses devices 101-whatever (rough example, as scenes vs. lights map to difference portions of that space); theoretically you could have X10, UPB, Z-Wave and RA2 all working together as long as you respect each of their address spaces.
 
I can't speak to the HAI's compatibility on any of these unfortunately.

 

[avjunkies]

Thanks work2play for carlifying UPB's capabilities.  Too many lighting options to choose from. I can't decide on Leviton UPB vs lutron now

 

[picta]

I'd say that if you want Elk, go with UPB, if you want lutron, HAI has a much better support for it. HAI also has a built-in ability to mix lighting technologies.

 

[dgage]

I went with RadioRa 2 and am very pleased with it. Polished is probably a good word for it. Like comparing a Lexus LS 460 to a Toyota Camry as UPBis functional and nice but RadioRa 2 is just that much more polished. Then again, just like the car example, you pay (dearly?) for that difference.

I went back and forth on my lighting choice and had several posts comparing the options. Just do a search for RadioRa 2 and you will find some of my "longer" posts.

I haven't upgraded my security system yet to Elk or HAI so can't talk about their integration. Like Picta recommended, I was leaning towards HAI until the recent price hike and potential for killing DIY HAI system installs. Now I'm leaning towards Elk since I have CQC that I could also use for controlling the lights.

 

[drvnbysound]

Thank you so much drvnbysound!!!
 
Well you answered a really important question with regard to non-leviton z-wave devices.  I think my plan is to go radiora2 for the lighting and z-wave/rs-232 for all other non-lighting related devices.  I've been thinking about the HAI omnipro II with UPB (I've heard of realiability issues) , but I think I like the idea of wireless lighting vs using the neutral line on power.  If I need expandability I think all I need to do is add another lutron main repeater. 
 
Any lutron radiora2 guys out there that have it successfully integrated with the elk m1?  I think I read somewhere that there are polling/status issues between the radiora2 and ELK M1?  Can anyone think of any limitations or issues that they ran into?  I'm trying to get as much reliability as possible.  This will likely be my demo for customers and want to make sure that whatever choose that it's not steering me in a direction with constitant customer calls.  Thanks !!!!

 
What exactly did I answer about non-Leviton devices? There are other manufacturers who support instant status feedback.
 
For me, at $25ea for my dimmers, I couldn't pass it up and didn't check to see if they supported this beforehand or not. Regardless, I wanted/needed Zwave devices because I wanted Zwave locks, so I had to put some sort of Zwave network in place anyway.