Elk M1 vs Bosch G-series?

Long story short, several years ago I was planning to build a new house and had looked into alarm systems. At that time I pretty much decided on the Elk M1 after a lot of research. Unfortunately do to some life issues, the house got delayed...I am now looking at building again and decided to revisit the Elk M1.

Unfortunately, it seems Elk is stuck in time? There doesn't seem to be any real updates with them, their home page still discuss Windows 10, which was released nearly 3 years ago. And worse, the M1ToGo, which lets you remotely control the system, still lists compatibility only up to Windows 7...Windows 8 was released in 2012, nearly 6 years ago, but there is still no mention of that?

I started looking at Bosch systems...and I know there is a bit of hate from people on Bosch/Radionics...but I have to say, I was completely impressed by the customability of their systems. Nearly every single setting you can think of is customizable, which is a big plus. I know Bosch is harder to program, but I used to install commercial alarms and I read over the manual and mostly understand it, so I'm not really worried about that...I'm mostly concerned with which is better and remote control/alert options.

Anyone have experience with both that can comment or recommend one over the other? Can you remotely control the Elk from a phone for free still or has that not been updated? How about remote control from the Bosch systems? Any advice and thoughts would be appreciated.
 
Anyone? Or at least since Elk seems popular on here...can anyone give me their thoughts on how Elk is doing recently? Can you still use your phone to control the system for free these days?
 
The Elk M1 has some remote control by phone capabilities, but the phone connection was generally geared for a land line reporting out and, if desired, calling in to listen with a rather cumbersome (as I recall) control menu.  When I gave up my landline, the Elk's phone port was re-purposed for use by a Telguard TG-1 for central station monitoring thus removing any "call in" or "remote control" functionality.
 
For remote access, I use (as many other on here do) eKeypad Pro, and in my case, often on a daily basis. 
 
Is it free?  No.  There is the cost of the app and the M1EXP necessary to use it (if you don't already have one, which I did for internal network access to my home automation software).
 
FWIW, I think the whole industry is "disrupted." When I built my house ten years ago, there was tons of activity about Elk, Homeseer, CQC, HTPCs, and $1,000 touch screens.
 
Now we have cheap screens (that we often carry around) and apps for your doorbell, thermostat, music, sprinkler, etc. Plus the promise that Alexa will take care of you.
 
The old companies seem to be grasping for the big dollar high-end installations (Crestron lite?). CQC certainly is. Elk's latest communicator C1M1 isn't even available for DIY which is disappointing. 
 
I'm in the same boat - building this spring. I have a Loxone system for automation but its security capabilities are very primitive. I've been leaning towards integrating Elk but I agree with you that its dated at best, as are ALL the mainstream systems. I've never looked too deeply at Bosch but will. Have you found a place for DIY purchasing of Bosch?
 
FYI... I just got a message back from Bosch. They do not (yet?) have a published API or protocol for interfacing to home automation controllers. For me, that's a deal breaker.
 
Otherwise, they seem to be the most modern and complete products available. They also have a G450 Home Control Gateway that interfaces to Z-Wave, ZigBee, Bluetooth, and WiFi devices although only with a paid subscription to a cloud service (no idea how much $ or how to buy).
 
With the exception of the G450, jmac.com seems to sell most of their stuff. Other suppliers they mentioned: ADI, Anixter, Tri-ed, Scan Source.
 
The programming software RPS is free. Firmware is available. Seems to be lots of excellent documentation.
 
More info... the protocol is licensed to manufacturers as if that was helpful. Also, the G series is supposedly only available through authorized dealers. Elk wins again.
 
RichardU said:
Now we have cheap screens (that we often carry around) and apps for your doorbell, thermostat, music, sprinkler, etc. Plus the promise that Alexa will take care of you.
 
The old companies seem to be grasping for the big dollar high-end installations (Crestron lite?). CQC certainly is. Elk's latest communicator C1M1 isn't even available for DIY which is disappointing. 
 
I wouldn't say that. The entry point is $199, which isn't a bank buster. As for the apps, and Alexa as well, that's not automation of course. That's just remote controls on a phone or by voice really. Many people will be happy with that, just as many people have always been happy with something simple and limited. But that's not the market that automation systems are targeting since there's not really any automation.
 
We are targeting folks who want customization and integration. You can get that two ways, either you make the time investment or the money investment. It's just a matter of whether it's worth it to you. But its personalized nature means it can't be mass produced. We can do work to help, but ultimately only you know what you want and what you have and how you want it all to work together.
 
TurboSam said:
For remote access, I use (as many other on here do) eKeypad Pro, and in my case, often on a daily basis. 
 
Is it free?  No.  There is the cost of the app and the M1EXP necessary to use it (if you don't already have one, which I did for internal network access to my home automation software).
 
Thanks. So to clarify, once you have the M1XEP and you buy the eKeypad app...then it's free after that, correct? As in, a one-time fee...but no monthly or recurring fees?
 
 
jeditekunum said:
I'm in the same boat - building this spring. I have a Loxone system for automation but its security capabilities are very primitive. I've been leaning towards integrating Elk but I agree with you that its dated at best, as are ALL the mainstream systems. I've never looked too deeply at Bosch but will. Have you found a place for DIY purchasing of Bosch?
 
I haven't looked to hard at finding places to buy Bosch, but typing in some of their product model names in Google brings up a few sellers. I'm not really worried about API and getting carried away with automation all that much...I mostly want a customization system with some limited automation. Their stuff seems pretty good...but Elk seems to beat them out with things like remote control...where Bosch *seems* to require you to buy a subscription, with Elk it appears you can do it with no monthly fees...which is a big plus for me.
 
I just discovered a system more modern than the Bosch G. Interlogix announced it last year at CES. Its called UltraSync. One place that sells it is Advanced Security LLC.  Very affordable. There is also a smaller wireless-only All-in-One UltraSync.
 
Of course Interlogix tech support says there is no integration protocol published - and they don't "market" to DIYers. I'm trying other doors :) But if you don't need integration access then it might be the right fit.
 
 
jeditekunum said:
I just discovered a system more modern than the Bosch G. Interlogix announced it last year at CES. Its called UltraSync. One place that sells it is Advanced Security LLC.  Very affordable. There is also a smaller wireless-only All-in-One UltraSync.
 
Interesting, but honestly that looks more like a child's toy then a professional security system. I'm looking for something a little more robust.
 
Experienced said:
Interesting, but honestly that looks more like a child's toy then a professional security system. I'm looking for something a little more robust.
 
How so? To be clear, there are two versions of that product. One, the "All-in-One" is a basic toy for residential. The other, the "Modular", is a commercial-grade system with every feature you could imagine - and more. Up to 500 zones!
 
I'd suggest a closer look. Looks far more complete and well thought out than anything else on the market. It has a built-in web server for all configuration - which, by itself, makes all the others look like ancient rust.
 
While studying the modular reference manual I found a user/password setting for "Automation API" access. I'm working with a dealer to get the manual for that.
 
UltraSync Modular Reference Manual
 
jeditekunum said:
How so? To be clear, there are two versions of that product. One, the "All-in-One" is a basic toy for residential. The other, the "Modular", is a commercial-grade system with every feature you could imagine - and more. Up to 500 zones!
 
I'd suggest a closer look. Looks far more complete and well thought out than anything else on the market. It has a built-in web server for all configuration - which, by itself, makes all the others look like ancient rust.
 
While studying the modular reference manual I found a user/password setting for "Automation API" access. I'm working with a dealer to get the manual for that.
 
UltraSync Modular Reference Manual
 
I guess I was looking at the all-in-one the first time...but I'm still not exactly sold. 500 zones? The Bosch system can handle over 500 zones...and all of them can be wireless, unlike the Ultrasync which only allows 192 wireless zones. The Bosch system even supports up to 2,000 users.
 
Quickly skimming over the manuals, there are a few things I'm not really liking...1. There appears to be only 2 arming modes...away and stay. Many systems, like the Elk, also have a 'night' mode which is pretty useful. 2. The minimum entry delay is 30 seconds...which is a bit too long for me entering my basement or whatnot...both the Bosch and Elk, I can set it to like 10 seconds for example. 3. The panel only seems to support up to a 12 amp hour battery? In my Honeywell system I have now, I have 2 8 amps in parallel for 16 amps. 4. Important for me, it doesn't seem to support proxy readers...both the Elk and Bosch support proxy readers to control doors. 5. Not sure how it works exactly, but it appears if you have multiple partitions/areas, that you can either program it to ask you what areas to arm or to automatically try to arm all of them...but it doesn't seem to allow you to only arm the area controlled by that keypad? Unless I'm missing something. 6. It seems to have a few silly querks...like for example, it has a 'strobe timeout' next to the siren timeout setting...but the strobe timeout only let's you select 'hours'...not minutes, which seems kind of silly. 7. Most important, systems like the Elk feature free modules to remotely control the system and get alerts...I see this has some time of remote capabilities...but does it have to go through them and you pay a monthly fee or can you set it up for free?
 
Overall, in what ways would you say this is better then like the Elk or Bosch system?
 
As it turns out I can't use the UltraSync either. While they obviously have automation integration capabilities, it is not available to DIYers and I absolutely need that. Even the dealers can't get the manual for those features. Apparently there is one company, that I've never heard of before, that has an integration - Claire (or Clare) Systems? At any rate, typical proprietary lock out. I assume one has to be a manufacturer of automation products that then has to license the protocol. Whatever business logic, and I use that term lightly, it sure isn't working if they have 1 integration with some obscure company. Maybe someday these old bean counter fools will figure out they are losing more business than they are gaining (applies to Bosch and DSC too).
 
The Bosch G may be a nice panel but it isn't without its own shortcomings. No web administration. No published protocol - same as UltraSync. You aren't suppose to be able to buy it outside of authorized dealers and from what I can see there are none that sell to DIYers. Odds are great that buying from the one source I've found would have absolutely zero warranty. Their older panels are available - but not the G. I haven't looked deeper at the kinds of things you've mentioned as they are out of the running for me based on just the ones I've listed.
 
DSC is the same with their NEO panels as far as integration. Whether it is legit to buy them for DIY I don't know.
 
So nobody can buy a modern panel if they want to do integration. I believe you mentioned you didn't care too much about integration so you have more options.
 
Elk is available to DIYers and automation protocol is published. Goes down hill from there. Expensive (even the EZ8). Modularity through a variety of hacked-on warts. I've read you can't get cellular module as a DIYer. Whole thing is very outdated.
 
Bottom line is that they are all poor solutions in one or more ways. I've been frustrated by this situation for the last year that I've been trying to find a solution.
 
At this point I think I will have to go with a DSC 1864 and EnvisaLink EVL-4. You might want to look at the EnvisaLink as maybe it does what you need.
 
jeditekunum said:
As it turns out I can't use the UltraSync either. While they obviously have automation integration capabilities, it is not available to DIYers and I absolutely need that. Even the dealers can't get the manual for those features. Apparently there is one company, that I've never heard of before, that has an integration - Claire (or Clare) Systems? At any rate, typical proprietary lock out. I assume one has to be a manufacturer of automation products that then has to license the protocol. Whatever business logic, and I use that term lightly, it sure isn't working if they have 1 integration with some obscure company. Maybe someday these old bean counter fools will figure out they are losing more business than they are gaining (applies to Bosch and DSC too).
 
The Bosch G may be a nice panel but it isn't without its own shortcomings. No web administration. No published protocol - same as UltraSync. You aren't suppose to be able to buy it outside of authorized dealers and from what I can see there are none that sell to DIYers. Odds are great that buying from the one source I've found would have absolutely zero warranty. Their older panels are available - but not the G. I haven't looked deeper at the kinds of things you've mentioned as they are out of the running for me based on just the ones I've listed.
 
DSC is the same with their NEO panels as far as integration. Whether it is legit to buy them for DIY I don't know.
 
So nobody can buy a modern panel if they want to do integration. I believe you mentioned you didn't care too much about integration so you have more options.
 
Elk is available to DIYers and automation protocol is published. Goes down hill from there. Expensive (even the EZ8). Modularity through a variety of hacked-on warts. I've read you can't get cellular module as a DIYer. Whole thing is very outdated.
 
Bottom line is that they are all poor solutions in one or more ways. I've been frustrated by this situation for the last year that I've been trying to find a solution.
 
At this point I think I will have to go with a DSC 1864 and EnvisaLink EVL-4. You might want to look at the EnvisaLink as maybe it does what you need.
 
I highly doubt they are loosing too much business. Bosch, DSC and the like generally cater to dealers, businesses, etc. not really people interested in API's and the like. As far as the Bosch panels...they do have the typical programming software as well as remote connection apps for the end-user...which is all most people (and myself) really need.
As fa as Elk, the only thing I'm hesitant about is the 'outdated' feeling...like they don't seem to be releasing a ton of new products or revisions and their whole website alone feels outdated.
 
I already used the Envisalink with my current Honeywell panel...I mean it's fine for basic arming/disarming and whatever, but regardless it only works with Honeywell and DSC panels...I'm definitely looking for something more capable...I'm just trying to decide between the Elk and Bosch. But I think Elk is kind of winning out for me.
 
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