OK, Ill check what Spanky said when I get home. Like I said earlier, the unit was just returned from Elk, and they said it worked, so obviouslt something is wrong on my end, but I cant figure it out. I do have 13v across the terminals, unless they are marked wrong on the board, but I highly doubt it. Im not seeing any led activity on the board. I even put a meter on the soldered side, and I get 13v. I dont think power is my problem, but maybe so. Ill double check when I get home.
ELK M1-XSP
- Thread starter nov0798
- Start date
1. Have 13.8 vdc
2. With the plug, plugged into the M1 control, and everything connected I get 146 ohms,
If I remove the EOL jumper from the main board (JP3) I get 7.8K Ohms, with everything plugged in
If I remove the EOL jumper form the DBH, I still get 7.8K Ohms with everything plugged in.
On the XSP, plugged in to the DBH I get 118 Ohms across A/B
3. Not reversed
4. Nothing!
Seems like #2 is high. Even when I unplug everything from the DBH, I still have the 146 Ohms.
Steve
Senior Member
Like I said earlier, I wouldn't think it would affect LED status, but your bus terminations are definitely not right. You need 2 terminators, one at each 'end' of the bus. How many wires/lines are connected to the board? If you want to describe each component and what is connected to then maybe be can help solve that part anyway. If its just 1 wire from the M1 to DBH and then all your device on the DBH, then you terminate the controller/M1 and the end of the DBH. EVERY other device on the DBH should NOT be terminated.
Yes, one set of wires from the main M1 to the DBH.
M1 control has JP3 enabled
DBH
Position 1 - linked to another DBH via cross over cable
On that DBH, one keypad
Keypad has no EOL resistor
DBH, has no EOL resistor
Position 2 - To a keypad - no EOL resistor
Position 3 - To a keypad - no EOL resistor
Position 4 - To a input expander - no EOl resistor
Position 5 - to XSP - no EOL resistor
Position 6 - EOL resistor in an RJ45 jack
Brad from Elk has suggested that I update the M1 firmware to the newest. Ill try this when I get home. It still seems to me like the unit gets no power, even though the meter measures 13 volts across the terminals.
M1 control has JP3 enabled
DBH
Position 1 - linked to another DBH via cross over cable
On that DBH, one keypad
Keypad has no EOL resistor
DBH, has no EOL resistor
Position 2 - To a keypad - no EOL resistor
Position 3 - To a keypad - no EOL resistor
Position 4 - To a input expander - no EOl resistor
Position 5 - to XSP - no EOL resistor
Position 6 - EOL resistor in an RJ45 jack
Brad from Elk has suggested that I update the M1 firmware to the newest. Ill try this when I get home. It still seems to me like the unit gets no power, even though the meter measures 13 volts across the terminals.
Shouldn't the "special" RJ45 plug go in the first unused jack on the 2nd DBH in your setup? I have four DBH's on my system and the RJ45 plug is in the first unused port on the "last" DBH. I started out with only one DBH, and added the others as I added "remote cans". The RJ45 plug always went into the newest DBH's first unused jack. The crossover cable connecting the "new" DBH always went in the last unused jack of the "previously new" DBH (i.e., where the RJ45 plug had been) and into J1 on the new DBH.
Ira
Ira
Well I assumed that the 2nd DBH is not different than any other device on the bus? The current setup has been working flawlessly for years! The only issue Im having now is that the MSP doesnt light up, and wont enroll, even though its hooked up just like everything else. I guess I will try and add an EOL resistor to the MSP directly as the last device on the main DBH, and disregard the RJ45 terminating plug.
tmbrown97
Senior Member
Give us a little more information... are you trying to hook up the M1 to control UPB lighting? If so there the XSP manual has all the settings for the XSP when connected to a serial PIM.
The easiest way is to do an export within UpStart - it'll extract a .upe file - and you import that from ElkRP. That'll make your light names and all that show.
Let us know where you're stuck and we'll pick it up from there.
The easiest way is to do an export within UpStart - it'll extract a .upe file - and you import that from ElkRP. That'll make your light names and all that show.
Let us know where you're stuck and we'll pick it up from there.
Yes Im trying to control a UPB setup. I did build the network in Upstart, but now Im a little confused as to what to do from there, specifically with the M1, and the ElkRP software. I did already set up the XSP to communicate with UPB? Its a small setup at the moment, with only 2 lamp modules.
Ok finally got it figured out. Apparently the M1 sees the second DBH on the x-over cable as the last DBH. Basically I had to end up terminating the DBH on the x-over cable, and the M1 JP3 which finally brought the resistance down to 60ish range where it should be. Also the DBH on the x-over cable does need to be the last port on the first DBH. Bottom line Ive finally got it figured out. Thanks to everyone who has helped.
Now Ive just got to figure out this lighting thing.
Now Ive just got to figure out this lighting thing.
The DBH documentation could use some clarification about using multiple DBH's. I was confused when I started setting up my system. The doc talks about multiple DBH's, but really only in a scenario where all but the last DBH is full, i.e., it says the x-over cable from the new DBH should be plugged into J9 on the existing DBH. It should say it should be plugged into the first unused jack, or better yet, where the RJ45 EOL plug was located. To me, the doc assumes that you are adding a DBH because you ran out of jacks.
I don't know about anyone else, but I use multiple DBH's as a convenience. I have one in each of my four HA cans, and all have less than six jacks in use. I don't have anything connected to the data bus other than thru a DBH, except of course, for the first DBH connected to the M1G.
I don't know about anyone else, but I use multiple DBH's as a convenience. I have one in each of my four HA cans, and all have less than six jacks in use. I don't have anything connected to the data bus other than thru a DBH, except of course, for the first DBH connected to the M1G.
Yea, Im kinda in the same boat your in, in that I dont have all my ports in my DBH full. I run one for my upstairs stuff, and the other for my main level stuff. I do agree that Elks documentation leaves a little to be desired. If it had not been for the total resistance of the data bus posted here, I would still be lost. I couldnt find where this was documented anywhere, but then again maybe I missed it. I wish Elk had a trouble shooting guide, etc for eacj of their devices. Hmmm, maybe we should start one??
Spanky
Senior Member
I am a little confused, but here is how I understand what is happening.
1. You have two M1DBH dumb hubs.
2. You are going from the M1 to DBH#1.
3. You are using Cat5 or 6 conductor wire where the data lines go out to the remote module like a keypad and the data bus lines return to the port plug. Power goes to the remote module(s) on two wires of the cable run. The power does not have to return.
4. You are jumping to DBH#2 with a Cat5 jumper going from the last unused port on DBH#1 to the first port on DBH#2.
5. You continue wiring devices to the ports on DBH#2 with the data bus lines returned to the port on DBH#2.
6. You put the terminating jumper in the next unused port on DBH#2.
7. The other terminating jumper will be on the M1 or some other device at the other end of the data bus run.
8. With the power off measure the resistance across Data A and B and it should be about 65 ohms +-10 ohms.
Keep in mind that the M1DBH is putting the serial RS-485 data bus lines in a series wiring configuration, so you must not skip any ports or the series wiring will not be complete. If you do not need all the ports then put the terminating plug in the first unused port.
1. You have two M1DBH dumb hubs.
2. You are going from the M1 to DBH#1.
3. You are using Cat5 or 6 conductor wire where the data lines go out to the remote module like a keypad and the data bus lines return to the port plug. Power goes to the remote module(s) on two wires of the cable run. The power does not have to return.
4. You are jumping to DBH#2 with a Cat5 jumper going from the last unused port on DBH#1 to the first port on DBH#2.
5. You continue wiring devices to the ports on DBH#2 with the data bus lines returned to the port on DBH#2.
6. You put the terminating jumper in the next unused port on DBH#2.
7. The other terminating jumper will be on the M1 or some other device at the other end of the data bus run.
8. With the power off measure the resistance across Data A and B and it should be about 65 ohms +-10 ohms.
Keep in mind that the M1DBH is putting the serial RS-485 data bus lines in a series wiring configuration, so you must not skip any ports or the series wiring will not be complete. If you do not need all the ports then put the terminating plug in the first unused port.
Yep pretty much what you said, but here was the problem.
The documentation doesnt explain what the system sees as the furthest hub. After some testing it was determined that the hub on the x-over cable is seen as the last hub. If you plug the EOl resistor in the last unused port of the first hub, it does nothing, no value change in resistance across A and B. One I placed the EOL resistor in the last unused port on the second hub, I then saw the correct ohm value across A and B.
Funny thing is that the system was working with a resistance value of over 140 Ohms for years with no problem.
Hope that explains it.
The documentation doesnt explain what the system sees as the furthest hub. After some testing it was determined that the hub on the x-over cable is seen as the last hub. If you plug the EOl resistor in the last unused port of the first hub, it does nothing, no value change in resistance across A and B. One I placed the EOL resistor in the last unused port on the second hub, I then saw the correct ohm value across A and B.
Funny thing is that the system was working with a resistance value of over 140 Ohms for years with no problem.
Hope that explains it.
RS485 is funny like that, sometimes it will work when not properly terminated.
Personally I think the DBH over-complicates things. It you plan your system out on a new install, you don't need a DBH.
