Elk M1G Doorbell Zone Question..

[Swancoat]

Hi, I'm building a new home, and want to install an Elk M1G. The builder has a huge cost if I switch to Elk with his alarm guy, so I'm going to basically have them pre-wire all of the sensors and keypads and run them back to the can...

I want to be able to include a doorbell input as a zone (basically want to be able to integrate this with HA to flash lights or something when I'm in the theater...). Not sure on what the EXACT implementation will be, but I know I want to be able to read/recognize that doorbell signal into the Alarm System.

My question is this: I know I don't want to include the whole 'doorbell voltage' signal into the alarm, just a low-voltage signal-level signal needs to be run to the can (right?). What do I tell these guys that I want run into the can? Is there some industry terminology that they will know so that they do the right thing?

 

[KentDub]

Are you planning any whole-home audio?

Maybe run the wire from the doorbell stright to the Elk. I'm not sure if this would work for lighted doorbells though (would be nice to know -- I'm thinking of doing this myself).

Kent

 

[AceCannon]

I also had some guys run all the sensor wiring back to my central area and did the M1G install myself.

I had them run a cat5e from the doorbell to the M1G location. Everything is working fine.

My button has an LED in it, I wired directly into an Elk zone config'd as non-alarm, normally closed, fast loop response enabled. The LED lights and the button works.

I have a rule something like:

WHENEVER zoneX DOORBELL BECOMES NOT SECURE
THEN ANNOUNCE MISC 1

And I made Misc 1 to be several 800hz tones. Someday I'll get around to having CQC play something more elaborate, maybe flash some lights.

Or maybe not.

 

[tmbrown97]

For the doorbell button, AceCannon got lucky in that his LED-light button actually works with the M1 directly. It's been confirmed by Elk that hooking a normal doorbell button with the incandescent bulb would be bad for the Elk all around - it draws too much current. Even the LED is a risk, but luckily it's worked out well for Ace

A really simple option is to go with a non-lit button; then you can direct wire it into a zone; nothing more to it. Then again, that's primarily if you want the doorbell to be handled entirely within the Elk with no external traditional doorbell.

If your intent is to keep the normal doorbell but just be able to detect it to augment the actions, the Elk doorbell detector works great. It's a cheap little circuit that detects the current draw required to activate the doorbell and closes a set of contacts - without in any way typing the doorbell circuit directly into the Elk. In that case, just put an extra 2-pair wire somewhere between the transformer and the doorbell and you can wire in the little doorbell detector.

In my case, I wanted to keep the traditional lit button, but I wanted to eliminate the physical doorbell and handle my sounds through the Elk. My doorbell was in the hall on a wall opposite a coat closet; so I just flipped the doorbell into the closet instead. I installed the elk doorbell detector, but I didn't want to actually hear the original doorbell, so I popped the cover off and removed the strike plates. The actuator technically does fire, but there's nothing to move, so no sound comes out of the unit. From there, I'm free to handle it entirely within the elk.

To take it further, I didn't like any of the sound options in the Elk - so I wired in an Elk 124 recordable sound module - it gives you 8 custom sound channels... I hooked those to the Elk's onboard voltage-only outputs, powered it off the Elk M1, and hooked the speaker output inline with the Elk's connection to the keypad speakers (the SP12's behind the keypads). The result is that I can have up to 8 custom sounds triggered by any rule I want - one of which is the activation of the doorbell button. I played with a few sounds (jetsons, etc) - but now use a nice sounding doorbell sound that I sniped from one of the electronic doorbell sites with the sample sounds. For fun, around the holidays I mix it up by adding spooky halloween sounds, and even add rules so that when the front door opens, other sounds activate. It's loads of fun and it wasn't too hard at all.

My next step will be going even further and tying a "quiet" mode in so that when the wife (who works nights) or the babies are asleep, it kills most of the doorbells around the house programmatically, along with any other annoying sounds.

 

[electron]

I actually just purchased 2 doorbell buttons myself and want to do the same thing. They aren't LED, which would have made things a lot easier, but the wife really likes this design. I haven't purchased the transformer yet, since I'm not sure yet how to approach this (don't want to invest the money if I really don't have to). I do have the ELK doorbell detector, and will run Cat5E to both doorbell locations.

I actually contacted 'Spanky' about this, and this is what he had to say:

If you can disconnect one side of the bulb and wire it to 12 VDC and the disconnected side of the button to the M1 zone. Then connect the other side of the button and bulb to negative on the M1. Pushing the button will pull the M1 input to negative, violating the zone input. The bulb should continue to glow.

Guess it's time to open one of the packages and try this.

 

[tmbrown97]

That looks like a cool option E; I may do that to the next house if I can. Depends on where all the wiring is at.

 

[cyberk]

I'm planning on doing the same exact thing with the doorbell detector. I just finished wiring the entire house and already put up the crown moulding so I've been trying to figure out how I'm going to wire the thing. I really can't here the doorbell upstairs but I can definately here my ELK speaker, currently I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to wire it without disturbing the moulding..lol

 

[KentDub]

I'm planning on doing the same thing as well. I already have my wiring run to the doorbell. I'm hoping that the existing transformer for the old doorbell will work with the new lighted button (I got one of those cool looking spore buttons mentioned in earlier doorbell threads). I also got the doorbell detector. I'll report back after the new button arrives.

 

[BDHall]

I actually just purchased 2 doorbell buttons myself and want to do the same thing. They aren't LED, which would have made things a lot easier, but the wife really likes this design. I haven't purchased the transformer yet, since I'm not sure yet how to approach this (don't want to invest the money if I really don't have to). I do have the ELK doorbell detector, and will run Cat5E to both doorbell locations.

I actually contacted 'Spanky' about this, and this is what he had to say:

If you can disconnect one side of the bulb and wire it to 12 VDC and the disconnected side of the button to the M1 zone. Then connect the other side of the button and bulb to negative on the M1. Pushing the button will pull the M1 input to negative, violating the zone input. The bulb should continue to glow.

Guess it's time to open one of the packages and try this.

Please let us know how this works out. It looks like there is a lot of interest in this. I started on the doorbell thing a while back but got side tracked and have not yet got back to it.

 

[Neurorad]

I have read 100 different threads concerning doorbells, and I still dont have a good handle on exactly how they work.

Must be some kind of conspiracy.

Or maybe I'll finally get off my ass and track down some manufacturer instructions.

 

[wuench]

I have read 100 different threads concerning doorbells, and I still dont have a good handle on exactly how they work.

Must be some kind of conspiracy.

Or maybe I'll finally get off my ass and track down some manufacturer instructions.

It's really simple. You have two options.

You can buy the Elk doorbell detector and wire it inline with the doorbell and to the Elk, in which case you can use any existing doorbell setup, with transformer, button, and bell.

You can wire a doorbell button directly to an Elk input. Set the fast loop response setting for faster detection of a button press. In this case there is no bell, there is no transformer, and no additional hardware. The button is simply closing the input contact. You have to be careful which doorbell button you use, it must be non-lighted or a low power LED one since you are drawing power from the elk input. This is the method I chose and I programmed a custom sound to play over the Elk speakers. The sound is a little staticy because you have to program custom sounds through your phone, but I am used to it. But it plays everywhere I have an elk speaker.

 

[electron]

I actually just purchased 2 doorbell buttons myself and want to do the same thing. They aren't LED, which would have made things a lot easier, but the wife really likes this design. I haven't purchased the transformer yet, since I'm not sure yet how to approach this (don't want to invest the money if I really don't have to). I do have the ELK doorbell detector, and will run Cat5E to both doorbell locations.

I actually contacted 'Spanky' about this, and this is what he had to say:

If you can disconnect one side of the bulb and wire it to 12 VDC and the disconnected side of the button to the M1 zone. Then connect the other side of the button and bulb to negative on the M1. Pushing the button will pull the M1 input to negative, violating the zone input. The bulb should continue to glow.

Guess it's time to open one of the packages and try this.

Please let us know how this works out. It looks like there is a lot of interest in this. I started on the doorbell thing a while back but got side tracked and have not yet got back to it.

I actually tried this, and it looks like this will work. That said, I ruined one doorbell button ($10) because the 2 tiny metal arms that hold the button assembly together are extremely fragile, and they have to be bent in order to access the light bulb. Hopefully I can gorilla glue it or something. The bulb is not 'mounted', it just sits there, so I am thinking about replacing it with an LED.

 

[KentDub]

I just finished the new doorbell install. It was much easier than I thought it was going to be. The hardest part was figuring out which wires in the can went to the doorbell (apparently my labeling smeared off most of the wires). Now I need to program some interesting rules to act on the doorbell now =)

 

[AceCannon]

The button is simply closing the input contact. You have to be careful which doorbell button you use, it must be non-lighted or a low power LED one since you are drawing power from the elk input. This is the method I chose and I programmed a custom sound to play over the Elk speakers. The sound is a little staticy because you have to program custom sounds through your phone, but I am used to it. But it plays everywhere I have an elk speaker.

This is what I am doing with my LED-illuminated button. But I am just playing a few of the Elk's 800hz tones, so there is no static.

The grand plan calls for me to trap this event in CQC and play whatever MP3 file is appropriate, but it is way down on the priority list.

 

[Neurorad]

thanks wuench

much appreciated

I'll use a Nuvo DA solution (doorbell detector, I think), until I get an alarm.

When the heck is that Elk M1P being releasedl...