ELK M1G Output 2 ELK-1RT ELK-SL1

[lake1316]

I have read many discussions about Output 2.  Hopefully this has not been answered.  I have connected a  ELK-1RT  ELK-SL1 to Output 2.  When the alarm is triggered it sounds off and the strobe works for only about 5 to 10 seconds. The inside sperker on Output 1 will continue as normal. 
 
Is the ELK-1RT  ELK-SL1 drawing  to much  for Output 2 which is then causing it to shut off?

 

[RAL]

The Elk 1RT is a speaker, and if you have Output 2 set up to drive it there is a varying audio signal on the wire to it.   The SL1 requires a steady 12V power supply and needs to be powered from the VAUX output of the M1 (or an additional 12V source).  You can use the relay on Output 3 to turn the power to the SL1 on and off under control of some rules when an alarm triggers.   If you are already using Output 3 for something else, you can use a separate relay, like an Elk 924, and one of the other outputs of the M1 to control the relay.
 
The SL1 requires 210 mA to operate.  You'll need to take a look at what other devices the M1 is providing power to (e.g. keypads, zone expanders, PIR, smokes, etc) in order to decide whether you need a separate power source for the SL1.  Elk has a current draw worksheet that can help you make that calculation.

 

[lake1316]

Thanks. In the Strobe instruction sheet is states that the most pulsed outputs will operate the strobe but the flash rate will vary.  So do you think that the strobe and speaker can be conected to Ouput 2 ?

 

[RAL]

Thanks. In the Strobe instruction sheet is states that the most pulsed outputs will operate the strobe but the flash rate will vary.  So do you think that the strobe and speaker can be conected to Ouput 2 ?

 
I don't believe you can drive the strobe with the audio signal that is produced for the speaker, but I've never tried to do that.  The audio output just isn't the right thing to power a strobe.
 
In any event, even if you could, if you have both connected, you'll probably be very close to tripping the 1.25A PTC that protects Output 2.
 
Going back to your original post, you said that the strobe works for only 5 to 10 seconds.  When the strobe stops, does the sound from the 1RT also stop?  That would indicate that the PTC is tripping.   Either way, you are going to need a different power source for the strobe.
 
One other thing to note is that the strobe is not designed for continuous operation.  So your rules will need to shut it down after a reasonable time, even if the panel is not disarmed.

 

[Del91574]

Two different items. You're talking an AC signal vs. a DC signal. The speaker works on AC. The strobe requires DC. It will not work properly, if at all.
 

Thanks. In the Strobe instruction sheet is states that the most pulsed outputs will operate the strobe but the flash rate will vary.  So do you think that the strobe and speaker can be conected to Ouput 2 ?

 

[lake1316]

Thanks for the info. Was out for a few days. So if the strobe and speaker operate on AC vs DC   is there any output on the M1 that will drive the strobe and is triggered by alarm or rule but does not need a separate power source?    If not, what power source would you recommend using?

 

[mikefamig]

I think that the answer to your question is on page 36 of the M1 installation manual:
 
Global G26
Allows Output 2 to be converted from a siren driver into a voltage only output. If set to
“No” the control produces alarm sounds for use with 8 Ohm speakers. If set to “Yes” the
control will produce +12 Volts for use with self-contained sirens or bells. Default is No.
 
G26 can be set to make out2 operate as either a 12v output for your strobe or it can be set as an audio driver for a speaker. Your 1rt is a speaker and requires G26 to be set "no" while your sl1 is a 12 volt load and requires G26 to be set to "yes" for 12 volt output so one or the other can be connected to out2 when properly set but the two will not work together.
 
Your strobe could alternately be powered by vaux on the M1 (or any sufficient 12 volt supply) wired through a relay that  would be  activated by one of the available outputs on the M1.
 
Mike.
 
EDIT
 
I replied before reading the entire thread and see now that I pretty much just echoed what RAL and DEL said above but maybe the vaux is what you are looking for as a power source if it isn't already in use.

 

[RAL]

The VAUX outputs can provide power to the strobe, as long as the strobe plus the other devices the M1 is providing power to don't exceed 1A.  You will need to use a relay and rules with this to operate the strobe.
 
As mentioned earlier, you should use the current draw worksheet to help you figure out what your power requirements are.
 
If you do need a separate power supply, there are several choices.  You could use a simple wall wart, like the Elk P1216.  The downside of using that one is that during a power failure when the M1 is running on batteries, then the strobe won't function. 
 
Otherwise, you will need a battery backed up power supply.  There are many choices here depending on how much extra power you need. The Elk P112 or P1215 would do fine for just powering the strobe and a few other low power items.  They can provide 1A or 1.5A of current, respectively.
 
There are also other larger power supplies that can provide more current for more devices, if needed.

 

[mikefamig]

This topic of an auxiliary power supply comes up so often that I wish that Elk would just increase the power of the supply on the M1 control. The 1.5 amps on the M1 is only enough for the most basic system and I would have liked a little more power without having to add a second metal box for a second power supply.
 
The xep requires 300ma itself and an ethernet connection is no longer considered an option, i wouldn't have the system without it. The TWA is rated at nearly 1 amp itself if I remember correctly and then maybe a motion detector or two and the control runs short of power very quickly.
 
OK I'm done complaining, I feel better now.

 

[Del91574]

This topic of an auxiliary power supply comes up so often that I wish that Elk would just increase the power of the supply on the M1 control. The 1.5 amps on the M1 is only enough for the most basic system and I would have liked a little more power without having to add a second metal box for a second power supply.
 
The xep requires 300ma itself and an ethernet connection is no longer considered an option, i wouldn't have the system without it. The TWA is rated at nearly 1 amp itself if I remember correctly and then maybe a motion detector or two and the control runs short of power very quickly.
 
OK I'm done complaining, I feel better now.

Elk isn't the only panel that has this issue. Almost any and every manufacturer doesn't have enough on-board power to run anything but a relatively generic system. The problem is people just won't pay for a system that puts out even remotely close to the power that most installed systems require. The same goes for ethernet.....now and within the last 5 years, it's become hugely widespread but when the M1 first came to market 11-12 years ago, think about it, dialup was still in widespread use!
 
It goes back to when I was in a class for Radionics panels (now Bosch) and a similar question was posed about relays (the panel has 1 on-board with sockets for 2 more). How expensive is a solder terminal/plug in LV relay? Well, at a cost of $2-3 at manufacturing to add, with, say an additional sticker charge of $10-15 on the panel cost.....dealers would scream.
 
The biggest issue with power is going to be it's not always in the best location for every install and secondly, the charging circuits typically end up developing problems of some sort (people don't maintain their batteries!) so I'd rather loadshed to a device that is more robust and easily replaceable if there is an issue. This is coming from someone that deals with access control panels that generally must supply power to field devices (not always dry contact) and have at least 4-10A worth of power per panel, on top of the panel power itself....A typical install would require at least 3 separate power supplies, assuming we piggyback REX power on the lock power outputs. I'd love for an ACP to provide power to field devices just for that reason alone.

 

[mikefamig]

I hear what you're saying about the location of the power source and distributing the power but I'm holding my ground on the ethernet adapter. I think that at least in residential installations it should be assumed that ethernet access is on the control panel and and supported by the standby battery. I'm willing to bet that most would agree with me that they do not want to dial up access to the alarm system.
 
Mike.

 

[Del91574]

Ethernet on the panel's battery isn't going to be the be all end all because the consumers typically do not have the network gear on UPS anyhow, so dialup access is always going to be far more robust and always need to be an option. The main issue is the ethernet option, being installed OEM on the board itself is going to add about $150-200 to the sticker on an already expensive panel. Elk is much more in the niche between say, Honeywell and their counterparts and HAI.
 
It's tough when that cost is essentially the same as dealer cost on a panel or kit itself.