Elk or HAI and interior door sensors

[DotNetDog]

Hopefully, I will soon be building a new house. I've where some people are wiring for magnetic sensors on all interior doors (not just windows and exterior doors). Is this really practical?

I mean...in my [current] house interior doors are often open...sometimes closed (my teenage daughters is almost always closed). This is true day or night. I don't see how I could expect interior doors to be tied to the security system. As for occupancy sensors, I don't see how interior door switches would be of value.

Has anyone wired for this? What's the practical application?

 

[signal15]

I have done some of mine. Primarily, it's not for security, but rather for automation. For example, if my bedroom door is shut, and my kid's bedroom door is shut, then I want to be notified if my kid's door opens and he's wandering around the house in the middle of the night. Additionally, if his door is closed, I disable the speaker closest to his room with a relay to avoid waking him up when there is an announcement.

If all of the bedroom doors are shut, it's reasonable to assume that everyone has gone to bed, and the temperature in the house can be turned down automatically. Or if they are all shut and the alarm isn't armed, I can have it automatically arm, or notify me that I forgot to arm it.

I was going to wire every door. But now, I'm going to use those MicraG wireless sensors. They are just over $20 each and it's going to save me a ridiculous amount of time getting all of the doors wired.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I'm thinking that most people that do interior door monitoring are doing so for automation purposes and not security. For instance if the door is open turn on lights/control heat/etc...

 

[briankelly63]

It really depends on how far you want to take security and automation.... Somewhere between one door switch, one PIR and a whole house full of them is the right place for YOU to be. Some people want to know the status of everything at all times.

Try and keep it simple, if your wiring the home yourself you can afford to do more if your having someone else do it you have to have some limits.

I'd suggest wiring to all exterior doors, garage doors, smokes or CO sensors, a couple of glass break sensors and then at least one PIR per level. The PIR's can be used for security and turning on some lights if someone gets up in the middle of the night.

Wire for keypads, speakers, sirens, strobes AND water sensors. An even mildly complicated system that's not intuitive will not be used by anyone but you and will just annoy everyone else!

If your doing light control you have a range of technology that runs anywhere from $100+ dollars per switch downward. Some super dependable system require that cat 5 type cable be run in a loop to each switch others use radio waves or PLC.

Have the house wired in such a way that neutrals are available at each switch location!!!!!!

Have a large conduit run from attic to basement for future stuff.

Want to save money? Unless you have dedicated servers that need gigabit access to your network go wireless instead of running cat 5-6 to every room...

Whole house audio? maybe.... speakers to key locations OR Apple Airport Express to each floor and patio (wireless).

Just some suggestions...


Brian

 

[signal15]

Just a comment on wireless networks.... You cannot stream full 1080p or high bitrate 720p over current wireless technology without dropping packets, I've tried on 802.11a/g/n and it doesn't work on any of them. The only way to do it is to transcode your video to a lower bitrate, which is what I'm doing now until I get a jack wired behind my PS3. If you're planning on having a video server somewhere, at least wire TV locations and your office with Cat-6. 1000ft of it costs just over $70 from Monoprice. It can also be used for other things (like HDMI or audio) by buying baluns to stick on the ends of the cables.

If you're spending all the money on building a house, put in way more wire than you think you need. Once that house is finished, you might not have an easy option to run more. 110 blocks used as cross-connects from the basement/garage/attic are your friend.

 

[DotNetDog]

Wow! Thanks for the quick replies. I already am planning to do lots of LV wiring. Cat6, RG6QS (quad-shield), etc... I will wire for all the truely security-related devices (as mentioned above). I will probably put interior door magnetic switch wiring on the bottom of the list...if I get the time then I may do them. Otherwise, I'll wait to see if I find some automation uses. Since I'm going with Z-Wave I can easily add Z-Wave sensors later.

 

[PaulD]

I did not think about wiring interior doors when I built my house and I have regreted it. I have some closet lights I now want to trigger from the closet door but the doors are not wired. I have now added a wireless unit to my Omni Pro II to allow me to add some automation features I overlooked during construction. That includes some sensors on several doors that I can use to trigger lights. I have also discovered that I can use the wireless sensors to monitor events temporarily that I do not plan to keep as a permanent event. However, the wireless approach is more expensive than the good old reliable wired approach so I would advocate wiring your doors now. Does not mean you have to hook them up or even install a sensor right now but the wire is there if you need it. Cheap insurance.

 

[judge_l]

I wired some of my interior doors with the thought that if I'm getting trips from a motion sensor and a door opening or closing, it would really make me think someone was in the house. I also did the walk in closet doors so the lights could be automated some day.

 

[sic0048]

The only problem with using door contacts is that people have to close them. In my house, no one seems to fully close the closet doors (including me). Motion dectors in the closets would be required for us to automate our closet lights. I suspect other households may be similar.

It's still something you should think about running if your walls are open (I agree with the "cheap insurance" mentality), but I would make sure I run a 4 wire run to each closet for a motion detector as well.

 

[DotNetDog]

I was planning on doing "occupancy" sensors. I had planned to use motion detectors for the very reason that sic0048 mentioned. I'm going with Z-Wave for my lighting and had assumed that I would use Z-Wave motion detectors...but you guys got me thinking that I should just wire for hard-wired motions.

Hmmm... not a bad idea. Less reliance on RF. I think I'm sold!

I'll still wire all internal doors...just in case.

 

[DotNetDog]

Oh, by the way... How does Elk or HAI handle motion and/or door sensors that are to used for automation but not for security? In other words, I don't need an alarm event if someone walks into a walk-in closet. I just want the lights to turn on. Can Elk/HAI handle this easily?

 

[ano]

Oh, by the way... How does Elk or HAI handle motion and/or door sensors that are to used for automation but not for security? In other words, I don't need an alarm event if someone walks into a walk-in closet. I just want the lights to turn on. Can Elk/HAI handle this easily?

Can't speak for ELK, but for HAI, its not a problem at all. A zone does not need to be monitored by the alarm.

One thought for the inside doors that might appeal to those with animals, is that most motion sensors, even "animal safe" motion sensors, really aren't. If you have animals, you could get in the habit of closing interior doors and arming them with your alarm. If someone should break-in, and they get past your parameter security, they would very likely open one of these doors and therefore trigger your alarm. Assuming your animals also don't open the doors, it might be a better plan than motion detectors. If a door happens to be open when the alarm is activated, most alarms can be set up to just ignore it and arm anyway.

 

[signal15]

In the ELK, you define the zone as Aux1 or Aux2, and then use an automation rule to fire off tasks or commands.

If you're using motions for occupancy sensing, then you should be using wired sensors. Wireless PIR's tend to not send repeated "not-secure" messages to conserve battery power. This varies by vendor, but they are not the best solution for occupancy sensing. As far as people not closing doors, you could always put in rules like this:

Whenever Closet door becomes not secure
then turn on closet light for 10 minutes

Then even if they forget to close the door, the light will turn off. Who spends more than 10 minutes in the closet if they're not Tom Cruise?