Elk or Omni Pro

[pete_c]

Yup in FL we did a tear down and didn't start construction for about a year. 
 
That said we "caught" one of the neighbors (Idiot; not even a US citizen)  paying off a town building inspector that was "inspecting our house" making changes based on his own preferences for a water front view.  That and we paid $50k for a building permit put the town's building inspectors on my s-list around 2000 or so.

 

[picta]

Have you abandoned the HS HAI plugin or are you still using it?

 
I have abandoned the HAI plugin, but still use HS as my main software controller.

 

[pete_c]

Interesting there picta. 
 
I have a few Aopen Mini PCs (really base patented design for the Mac Mini) so I guess I could build a Mac server to server as an intermediate to the HS server such that I could talk to the HS box and do away with the HAI HS plugin.  (not a mac person here but do have apple stuff turned off and on the shelf these days - tablets et al)

 

[jwilleke]

As a long term user of HAI OmmniPro II, I can say it has not kept up with the technology. 
My biggest complaints:

• Poor support for Z-Wave.
• No email, or text notifications
• Proprietary Device protocols (Like all HA Vendors)
• Recently (right after Leviton bought them) a HUGE price increase (30+%) and they did no make any improvements.

In ten years, there have been on major updates to the main broad and when they did finally add an eeprom for firmware upgrades, it cost $900.00 to upgrade the board if you did it yourself.
 
I am certainly open to new ideas for my systems.
 
-jim
 
AFIK, all of the major players are similar.
. 

 

[Del91574]

As a reasonably early adopter of the Elk hardware, I can say it's been very similar for the Elk market.
 
Prices have increased, though not same as HAI. Smoking deal for an M1 kit with a KP2 going on right now, like $200 off at my distributors.
 
I still haven't gotten an answer about the Elk/Ness story as to who makes the M1 and where which segments come from (engineering, etc)
 
Elk is reasonable for most updates, but slow to address problems (keypad flash anyone?) or newer hardware coming to market and obsolete products (RCS/Aprilaire)? Easier interface and native integration with partner products?
 
No real significant hardware releases besides fluff (Navigator is nice and fills a niche, but behind in size to Honeywell's basic units) Who really needed a proprietary RF bidirectional device (besides a keyfob) and did I really need a RF motion with a light in it? How about a real wireless keypad? How about support for Honeywell's bidirectional RF devices?
 
Don't get me wrong, I've worked with HAI, which is a decent product and requires little thought unless you take all your integration components out of a HAI box. Elk is also a decent contender, very capable and is IMHO, a more economical product to install. also far more modular, but some of the issues I have with the hardware has to do with how slow they are to update or add items that their (indirect) competitiors offer in the security/fire panel world, but in their defense, their abilities on the HA side are somewhat limited.

 

[dgage]

Are there really any alternatives to HAI and Elk?  I would assume there is if you aren't tied to an HA system but if you are tied to an HA system, I doubt there are many options. 
 
For instance, CQC lists the following:
 
* Automation Panels

• Barix Barionet
• Elk M1 (Gold)
• HAI Omni Pro II
• HAI Omni TCP/IP

* Security Panels

• GE Networx NX-8/NX-8E

 

[picta]

I am also a long user of OmniPro and previously had Elk, and I think they are both the front runner products for hardware automation controllers, far ahead of similar products in that class like ADI, Homevision, Stargate etc. They do what they are designed to do very well, and HAI has been continuously introducing new products and integrating with other systems, and IMO it's the best system on the market for DIY automation. HAI currently supports 10(!) lighting protocols and has recently added 11th, their own hardware lighting system, omnibus. The business of integration with others products is not easy and most likely non-profitable, this is why most manufactures prefer to sell proprietory stuff. This hardware just works, and works well. It is an essential piece of my automation system, but it is not the only one. I also have a software controller for more complex but non-critical stuff and for a few things that HAI panel does not do very well. Haiku and HaikuHelper software provide an easy UI for HAI, and made a great addition to the setup. So if you look at HAI or Elk panel as a solid multi-interface hardware controller, and not as a "do everything and more" system, they would certainly appear as great products.

 

[Dean Roddey]

Supporting a product like the Elk or Omni is beaucoup work. You guys complain that they don't do enough, but supporting even part of all that they do, in a way that isn't tied to any particular product, is very time consuming. It's one thing to do some simple, dedicated front end for a specific panel but, in the context of a whole automation system that has to support more than one in an abstracted way, they do more than is comfortable. And, though you guys might complain about the lack of updates, there sure seem to be more than enough from our perspective having to keep up with them (or to be beaten up about for not doing so.)

 

[jwilleke]

I would guess that if I had HAI's  resources and experience, I would certainly be very worried about the fact a Raspberry PI is more powerful, more flexible, and has expandable storage. Probably, most "Smart" cell phones are too.
 
But instead, in more than 10 years, there has been no significant hardware improvements. Sure they added 2 more serial ports (No USB or fire-wire or Lightning but serial) and finally an E2Prom a few years ago.
 
And while all the other "mini"  devices have dropped by a factor of 10 each year for 10 years, HAI raises their price by 30%.
 
And there is still no REST or other WEB Service API.
 
And agreed, for you and most individuals, homeautomation at the wire level is tough. But HAI is a company dedicated to Home Automation/Security.
 
There are some good software "add-ons" that are constantly getting better, like CQC, Hauki and several others. And they know how difficult it is to work with the HAI APIs.
 
All I am saying is there just has to be a better way and I am looking for Ideas.
 
Anyone using:
ttp://getvera.com/
http://www.openhab.org/
http://www.openremote.org/
 
Thoughts or suggestions encouraged.
 
-jim

 

[pete_c]

All I am saying is there just has to be a better way and I am looking for Ideas.

 
There has been better ways literally almost every year since I purchased my first HAI OPII Panel some 10 years ago.
 
Before Elk and HAI there did exist some methodologies of combining an alarm panel / automation panel.   I purchased a combo alarm automation panel with speech in the 1980's.  It was about twice the size of the HAI OPII panel and it worked fine into the early 2000's.
 
Both panels mentioned are constructed and have been updated related to their long term use; albeit the changes have been based on the core design of the two panels which I agree is dated.  That said personally I am thrilled that the HAI OPII continues to function 24/7 nary any glitches some 10 years now.
 
I have personally "played" with Arm based CPU mini "do whats" and they are miniature marvels.  I am amazed how much I can do with a small arm based CPU board roughly some 3" square.
 
There are many "better" ways.  Just look at what's coming relating to the combination of security and automation control and small pico sized controllers.  I am playing today with an arduino beagleboard running software from one company which I have been using for some 15 years now.  Another coming is the Almond + which even has a touchscreen interface.
 
You being here and reading all of the stuff on CT tells me that you are familiar with the various means and software relating to different methodologies of security and automation.  While this technology has been around some 30 years plus; it was cost prohibitive and now is not.
 
That you asking questions does spark interest and the search for or build of a "holy grail" "do what"; that is what keeps us going here on the CocoonTech forum. 

 

[Dean Roddey]

One thing you would have to consider though is that, in order to get the benefits of something like a Pi, you'd have to give up one of the big reasons people use something like an Omni to begin with, which is that fundamental embedded device aspect of it. People say they like to use those types of devices because it's not a PC. But a Pi, whatever you want to call it, is a PC effectively, right? Maybe a fairly simple one, but nonetheless it's not an embedded device and it doesn't have the primary benefit that people seem to want an embedded device for. They may be wrong or right about the actual difference, but it is one of the reasons folks purchase those devices.
 
If you are going to commit to a PC at a fundamental level in the mix, you could move everything over to something like CQC and use an alarm panel.

 

[picta]

Anyone using:
ttp://getvera.com/
http://www.openhab.org/
http://www.openremote.org/

Neither of the above can be compared to HAI or Elk, the last two are software controllers and you will have to provide your own hardware. vera is a hardware controller centered around z-wave technology, still you need to add the other hardware. So if you already have the HAI hardware, just add a software controller to your set-up and it should cover your needs. Rasberry Pi is just a mini-PC to run your software, it is not that easy to use or configure, is not very reliable, and not very powerful (you'll probably need a few to replicate what the omnipro board is capable of). I have 2 Pis, they are neat devices, but very limited in capabilities. I also have webcontrol and arduino, they are fun addition to my system, but by no means would be able to replace the hai board.