ELO touchscreen disassembly / Opie's flush wall mount

[shenandoah75]

I was looking at this thread and was thinking of going the refurb planar approach...

http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showto...20wall&st=0
http://homepage.mac.com/ssmiller1/CT/PhotoAlbum18.html

But there are some pretty good deals on Elo's on ebay...

My issue is that i will be in a similar position as in Opie's posting. I have a stud in the middle of a a lam'-beam for my second story in the wall i want to put this in. Bottom line, the wife says 1-7/8" out of the wall like Opie's ain't gonna happen - she also insists i put it this location if at all. Now it's a single stud and main beam rests on the ends of that wall where studs are trippled up, etc. I don't want to remove this stud in question, but i am willing to notch it a little to get a flush or close to flush install. I might be able to put in jack studs at the existing stacks too

So main question is on these elos which appear to be about 3" thick for the desktop models which are the common ones on ebay as opposed to the rear mounts. If i pull the plastic off, will the thickness be similar to the Planar in same condition? I'd like to fit it into 3/8" of drywall + maybe an inch notch in the stud.

-brad

 

[politics123]

I was looking at this thread and was thinking of going the refurb planar approach...

http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showto...20wall&st=0
http://homepage.mac.com/ssmiller1/CT/PhotoAlbum18.html

But there are some pretty good deals on Elo's on ebay...

My issue is that i will be in a similar position as in Opie's posting. I have a stud in the middle of a a lam'-beam for my second story in the wall i want to put this in. Bottom line, the wife says 1-7/8" out of the wall like Opie's ain't gonna happen - she also insists i put it this location if at all. Now it's a single stud and main beam rests on the ends of that wall where studs are trippled up, etc. I don't want to remove this stud in question, but i am willing to notch it a little to get a flush or close to flush install. I might be able to put in jack studs at the existing stacks too

So main question is on these elos which appear to be about 3" thick for the desktop models which are the common ones on ebay as opposed to the rear mounts. If i pull the plastic off, will the thickness be similar to the Planar in same condition? I'd like to fit it into 3/8" of drywall + maybe an inch notch in the stud.

-brad

How long is the lam beam between the two triple studs? The stud is more likely than not structural, and there are strict guidlines for whether you can notch or hole a structural stud. Unfortunatley, sometimes the square peg can't be jammed into a round hole. Can you get a smaller touch-screen (mp3car.com) or use a handheld wireless device?

 

[shenandoah75]

I knew somebody would flag me on the engineering issue

Actually, i was wrong... I pulled back some more drywall and the lam beam stops prior to this stud. see below for details.

A picture is worth a 1000 words, so here are a few

There are actually three lam beams.

1. The long one is in the ceiling span where joists are running out in both directions butt up and are braced to it, its only supports are the block exterior wall on the left and at the first interior corner where studs are packed together. In picture one i comes right off the corner to the back wall of the house which is where i am standing. The floor joists butt up to this one...
   
2. The second is at the top of the diagonal wall with the door, and the the third is in the tall portion of the foyer/stair wall. The floor joists rest right on top of these. LAM #2 (the one in the diagonal) was the one i thought went to the end of the wall over this stud, but as shown below it doesn't...

Bottom line, the stud i want to notch is the one you see slightly to the left in the fourth picture of the inside of that corner (from closet side, just left of center). Looking at te diagonal wall form out of closet, it is just to the left of that volume control you see there. There is more bracing behind it in that corner cluster.... Yes, there are two headers sitting on it but the lam beam in that same wall stops at a massive stud grouping you see in picture 3 - the wide face 2x4 you see to the left is one of four (also includes the one to the right and 2 behind it (one on the super short interios closet wall and one in the diagonal wall behind that). In addition to that, there is the main stud to where the diagonal lam beam butts of too and jack studs below it (hidden behind drywall. The long beam (not really visable form inside) is sitting on the headers to the right which are part of the kitchen wall, the the headers above my problematic stud.

Also, both of the headers in the diagonal wall above the stup in question are beveled at 45 degrees (picture 4) and butt to the kitchen wall's headers, thus they are not carrying the load of the long beam either. There is a truss which is hard to decern here, sitting at that 45' wall, but it it butted to the main lam beam and rests over one of the studs i'm not touching

In short, i have looked at it (a lot) the last few weeks and even if it's technically concidered load bearing, it's not bearing much weight in my opinion. it's the kitchen wall and the corner stud clusters - of course i'm no engineer either so i'm all ears to other opinions


In terms of distance, looking at the wall from the living ares, the stud in question is 3.5" to the right of the nearest stud in the left hand stud cluster where walls intersect (that nearest stud is really in the kitchen wall plane though, so it is not under the diagonal headers) and 9" to the left of the one on the right (which is slightly to the left of the door) - dimensions are edge to edge not on-center... and again, stud is slightly to the left of the volume control.


btw - i did just get an ipaq i plan to use for control, but this location is so perfect for a central/permanent location.


thx again...
-brad

 

[Digger]

I personally would be careful taking the enclosure off of a monitor and installing it inside of a wall. The enclosure it there for several reasons other than cosmetic in most cases.

The monitor most likely has hazardous voltages (not the biggest problem when installed in a wall) and high power circuits that could be a fire hazard. The enclosure (case) of the monitor is a fire barrier and will hold in a fire to a degree. If you remove it and install the monitor in a wall you MIGHT have a problem. If the monitor was to malfunction and the enclosure is not there the fire could possibly spread inside the wall.

I am not saying you would definitely burn your house down and I havent seen the actual monitor so it might be ok. I would just think it through carefully before doing it. If it is actually fine then ENJOY.

 

[politics123]

lol... Brad, your details were so great I'm confused! Let me think about your post... in the meantime:

This is an excellent article (couldn't find direct link to it, so I used google's cache):
http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:6qedM...;cd=6&gl=us

And the articles image:
http://www.rd.com/images/tfhimport/2000/Ju...mg001_size2.jpg

The summary:
-- holes are better than notches
-- a notch of 7/8" is acceptible, even on a load-bearing wall
-- a notch of 1 3/8" is acceptible on non-load bearing walls.

 

[Sacedog]

lol... Brad, your details were so great I'm confused! Let me think about your post... in the meantime:

This is an excellent article (couldn't find direct link to it, so I used google's cache):
http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:6qedM...;cd=6&gl=us

And the articles image:
http://www.rd.com/images/tfhimport/2000/Ju...mg001_size2.jpg

The summary:
-- holes are better than notches
-- a notch of 7/8" is acceptible, even on a load-bearing wall
-- a notch of 1 3/8" is acceptible on non-load bearing walls.

Great article! For someone who has not pulled residential wire before, this is a must read. Thanks for posting that link!

 

[politics123]

lol... Brad, your details were so great I'm confused! Let me think about your post... in the meantime:

This is an excellent article (couldn't find direct link to it, so I used google's cache):
http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:6qedM...;cd=6&gl=us

And the articles image:
http://www.rd.com/images/tfhimport/2000/Ju...mg001_size2.jpg

The summary:
-- holes are better than notches
-- a notch of 7/8" is acceptible, even on a load-bearing wall
-- a notch of 1 3/8" is acceptible on non-load bearing walls.

Great article! For someone who has not pulled residential wire before, this is a must read. Thanks for posting that link!

Yes, I thought they did an excellent job on explaing engineering rules to us non-builders. Glad you also found it useful

 

[politics123]

I knew somebody would flag me on the engineering issue

Actually, i was wrong... I pulled back some more drywall and the lam beam stops prior to this stud. see below for details.

A picture is worth a 1000 words, so here are a few

There are actually three lam beams.

1. The long one is in the ceiling span where joists are running out in both directions butt up and are braced to it, its only supports are the block exterior wall on the left and at the first interior corner where studs are packed together. In picture one i comes right off the corner to the back wall of the house which is where i am standing. The floor joists butt up to this one...
   
2. The second is at the top of the diagonal wall with the door, and the the third is in the tall portion of the foyer/stair wall. The floor joists rest right on top of these. LAM #2 (the one in the diagonal) was the one i thought went to the end of the wall over this stud, but as shown below it doesn't...

Bottom line, the stud i want to notch is the one you see slightly to the left in the fourth picture of the inside of that corner (from closet side, just left of center). Looking at te diagonal wall form out of closet, it is just to the left of that volume control you see there. There is more bracing behind it in that corner cluster.... Yes, there are two headers sitting on it but the lam beam in that same wall stops at a massive stud grouping you see in picture 3 - the wide face 2x4 you see to the left is one of four (also includes the one to the right and 2 behind it (one on the super short interios closet wall and one in the diagonal wall behind that). In addition to that, there is the main stud to where the diagonal lam beam butts of too and jack studs below it (hidden behind drywall. The long beam (not really visable form inside) is sitting on the headers to the right which are part of the kitchen wall, the the headers above my problematic stud.

Also, both of the headers in the diagonal wall above the stup in question are beveled at 45 degrees (picture 4) and butt to the kitchen wall's headers, thus they are not carrying the load of the long beam either. There is a truss which is hard to decern here, sitting at that 45' wall, but it it butted to the main lam beam and rests over one of the studs i'm not touching

In short, i have looked at it (a lot) the last few weeks and even if it's technically concidered load bearing, it's not bearing much weight in my opinion. it's the kitchen wall and the corner stud clusters - of course i'm no engineer either so i'm all ears to other opinions


In terms of distance, looking at the wall from the living ares, the stud in question is 3.5" to the right of the nearest stud in the left hand stud cluster where walls intersect (that nearest stud is really in the kitchen wall plane though, so it is not under the diagonal headers) and 9" to the left of the one on the right (which is slightly to the left of the door) - dimensions are edge to edge not on-center... and again, stud is slightly to the left of the volume control.


btw - i did just get an ipaq i plan to use for control, but this location is so perfect for a central/permanent location.


thx again...
-brad

Brad --

Okay. Disclaimer: I'm still not an engineer or architect. That means I don't know anything!! Also, note that codes vary substantially in different places, so that reader's digest article may not be correct for you. Anyway....

I mapped this out, and assuming I got it correctly, understand your quandry. If you take out the angles, and consider this in simple design, you have a wall that meets at a right angle, and on top of that wall (somewhere in the middle of it) is a beam that supports another level. Under that beam are multiple studs to support the beam directly. You want to remove (I know you said notch, but let's look at this from a "remove" basis) one stud from the wall but off to one side from the studs that are directly under the beam.

In ascii:

xxxxx_A_____________________C
||
||
||
||
(beam)


Wall is the line from A to C, beam intersects at right angle, there are multiple studs (the x's) under the beam, and you'd like to remove either stud A or stud C. My understanding is that both A and C are load-bearing, A much more so than C. The double 2x4 header carries the weight across multiple studs, not just the one directly below the beam.

Now, I know in your case that stud A is kind of off on its own, without anything directly over-top of it besides the double 2x4, but I think it still counts as load bearing. If it were truly on its own -- something akin to a knee wall into open space -- I think there's a rule (I can't find it) that says "it depends how close stud A is to the beam." So... will your house fall down if you notch it deeper than you should? Probably not. Would it settle more? Who knows. Could it be a problem when it comes time to sell the house? Maybe.

Suggestions:
1) If you have full access to stud A from the closet, you can run a separate 2x4 mounted at a 90 degree angle to stud A, and then remove stud A. A 2x4 mounted at such an angle wouldn't need to be notched, since you only need 1" more depth than you have. This is how they build environmental corners (called "3 stud corners") to maximize insulation in exterior walls.

2) It appears you can notch that stud almost enough to mount your LCD panel. You were still planning a frame, right? Does that give you the extra 1/4" you need?

3) Can you get a narrower LCD?

 

[shenandoah75]

Well, with slight clarification, I actually want to remove C not A which we agree is less bearing... (headers stop at C, beam is close A, the other beam is irrelevant because the header. Note i'm focusing on the door header only in your comparison. In your 90 degree example, i think your're demonstrating the headers overlapping/intersecting in both directions which does not happen on the other beam close to C. that wall truly butts up and stops.


1) not sure i fully understand - are you saying 2x4 at a 90 degree and jack-studded to the ones next to it? would be tough to do anything

2/3) Ya i really wish i knew the dimensions of all these panels... I got the 7/8" plus 3/8" drywall, and ya i could probably get some kind of trim and make the inside of it the fatter part (unlike the doortrim examples) and rabbit the inner edge so the monitor sit in there and get really close.


thx again for all your help - i think i'm gonna stick with 7/8" and hope maybe someone expidited the dell and gets the panel's dimension....
-brad

 

[shenandoah75]

Planar arrived today!!!!

Guess what i'm doing tonight

 

[politics123]

Planar arrived today!!!!

Guess what i'm doing tonight

hopefully, it fits!!

 

[Ranger Digital]

shen, lookin forward to your pics!!!

 

[shenandoah75]

Ok so i varied from opie a bit...

You can see i indeed notched the stud... My milwaukee sawzall is a beast - it got away from me and notch is actually just over 7/8" ... I marked the line and everything! Some changes from opie... Since i didn't want the speakers, i used the existing notch for the vga re-route... that was the only connector where a stud was directly in the way - serial stayed as is... As you can see in the first pic, i notched the 2x4 bracing i put in there so wires had lots of room to bend... second/third pics shows where i didn't want to drill through the serial/vga/power cables coming into those notches... I cut an access hole on the opposite wall (closet - inside so i could access temporarily (the cables they ship are too short!)

I taped around the drywall to avoid dust getting all over the lcd... Now i just need to do some trim work around it, buy that new hardware / software and we're set! (forget finishing the closet cleanup - this is too cool and thw WAF appears to be going up!) The thing only sticks out 3/8-1/2" (should be 5/16 if i can get it even, right now top is recessed a hare more than the bottom). Window casing won't be an option as that;s a pretty deep rabbit cut, but i'll find something... Some of our frames are reall think around the inner edge, so something like that probably...


Oh and btw, i did take out the niles VC and wrap it in a bag before i started the mess (in cae anyone was wondering)!


Curous if anyone has recommendations on sealing round the screen to the frame (they had thin strips of black rubber/tape inside the outer plastic cover to do this out of the box. Thinking it'd be nice to do the same with my frame...

-brad