Hey guys I'm going to attempt an Elk M1 install and I have a question. I'm not happy with the location of my current alarm can and I was considering moving it. When I purchased my home it was a new construction so everything is wired but if I were to move the can some of the alarm wire would have to be extended. Is there a safe way to extend the wiring? Please advise. Thanks
Extending Wiring
- Thread starter Mridixon
- Start date
I would leave the current can in place as a wiring enclosure where you can make all the splices and have them protected, as well as providing easy access should there ever be problems.
You have a couple of choices for making the splices between the old cables and the extensions.
You can use B-connectors to make crimped splices between the old and the new. The problem is keeping them all neat. For just a few cables, this will be fine.
Or, you could mount some 66 or 110 punch down blocks in the can and make the connections through the blocks.
For wires heavier than 22 gauge, you won't be able to use the punch down blocks. You could use B-connectors or screw type terminal strips for these.
Be sure to label all the cables on both sides so you know what they all go to.
You have a couple of choices for making the splices between the old cables and the extensions.
You can use B-connectors to make crimped splices between the old and the new. The problem is keeping them all neat. For just a few cables, this will be fine.
Or, you could mount some 66 or 110 punch down blocks in the can and make the connections through the blocks.
For wires heavier than 22 gauge, you won't be able to use the punch down blocks. You could use B-connectors or screw type terminal strips for these.
Be sure to label all the cables on both sides so you know what they all go to.
How far away is it? If you really want to do it there are options. You could even use multiple lead wire in some cases to reduce the cables. There are a variety of splicing methods available. Generally I use low-voltage splice connectors and think they are the way to go. They contain an anti-oxidation jelly to prevent any oxidation.
tmbrown97
Senior Member
I definitely agree about keeping a box as a splice point although I'd probably opt for a flush mount... I don't get the 66-block thing that everyone does though - probably in part because I prefer stranded wire too. The screw terminals would be very clean and would be my preference. It does depend on the number of wires; you could solder/shrinkwrap for the cleanest; b connectors are fine too - etc.
Also worth noting - with the Elk, all Negatives are common - whether for power or the negative side of the zone - so you don't need to extend every single one individually - they can all be tied together and carried over a single wire if you wanted (just account for current-drawing devices and ensure adequate wire gauge).
Also worth noting - with the Elk, all Negatives are common - whether for power or the negative side of the zone - so you don't need to extend every single one individually - they can all be tied together and carried over a single wire if you wanted (just account for current-drawing devices and ensure adequate wire gauge).
Stranded wire and punchdowns is asking for problems over time. Punchdown blocks are really designed for solid and only up to about 20 AWG.
I also agree, I fail to see the attraction to using them and landing the cabling on them....we're not talking about a large commercial system with large masses of wiring.
I also agree, I fail to see the attraction to using them and landing the cabling on them....we're not talking about a large commercial system with large masses of wiring.
Photon
Active Member
RAL said:
Be aware of the following statement in the Elk M1G manual, page 12: "WARNING! Do not splice or interconnect the M1 Data Bus using Telephone type 66 or 110 punch down blocks." That warning did not appear in the manual in effect when I began my installation.
I have a couple keypads connected through 66 blocks, and I haven't seen a problem. My 66 blocks are rated for category 5 (or 5e?) by Siemon, so I don't think there is a concern with bandwidth. The M1G data bus operates at just 38,400 bps. Perhaps there is a concern with current carrying capacity.
Photon said:
Thanks for pointing that out. The warning wasn't in the earlier version of the manual that I have. But I downloaded the latest and see that it has been added. Not sure why there would be a problem with using punch down blocks as long as you are careful to wire the bus correctly. I agree with your point that there shouldn't be a bandwidth concern. The blocks certainly are capable of handling the data rate on the bus.
Photon
Active Member
I'd also like to see a summary of changes like we find in USAF tech manuals so I don't have to scroll through page after page looking for changes when they publish an updated manual. Generally when a statement is preceded by "WARNING!" in all-caps and a bang it is significant. The M1G Installation Manual L520 Rev. J is dated 10/28/10. I hadn't noticed this change until last month, and the house hasn't burned down, so maybe it isn't critical. I agree it would be nice to know why the warning, though.
66 blocks are NOT rated for Cat XX cabling unless they are specifically revised to do such....and there's only a couple out there I know of.
I'm going with the realm that people using the blocks for interconnection are introducing a whole world of problems and reliability issues, which is what is causing Elk to make a blanket statement on the usage of such.....also, it seems a lot of people in the security industry use stranded cable more often than solid, which again, causes more cabling issues with terminal blocks or the DBH's (which I'm no fan of anyhow). The cabling for their data bus really isn't that "heavy" of a requirement or standard (like Belden or other STP or UTP). It also might be an indication of products to come.
Then again, I failed to see the beauty (besides the slight cost difference) in cabling using a Cat X cable to the keypad over pulling enough conductors of 22 to the keypad to daisy or bring back the points from the field. Maybe I'm reminded too much of the Napco and Radionics keypads that had zone expansion built in them or maybe the old Optex/Morse panels that ran 485 but required 2 separate cables.....
I'm going with the realm that people using the blocks for interconnection are introducing a whole world of problems and reliability issues, which is what is causing Elk to make a blanket statement on the usage of such.....also, it seems a lot of people in the security industry use stranded cable more often than solid, which again, causes more cabling issues with terminal blocks or the DBH's (which I'm no fan of anyhow). The cabling for their data bus really isn't that "heavy" of a requirement or standard (like Belden or other STP or UTP). It also might be an indication of products to come.
Then again, I failed to see the beauty (besides the slight cost difference) in cabling using a Cat X cable to the keypad over pulling enough conductors of 22 to the keypad to daisy or bring back the points from the field. Maybe I'm reminded too much of the Napco and Radionics keypads that had zone expansion built in them or maybe the old Optex/Morse panels that ran 485 but required 2 separate cables.....
I read the statement the exact opposite....it's not a recommendation since it's not worded as such. If there were a benefit, it would be worded as such. "CAT5 is recommended" or "UTP is recommended" or "cable must meet XYZ...or Belden ZZZ81A or equivalent". All it states is that it is acceptable and CATX is ideal to get the conductor count.
I spoke with Elk's engineering about this in great detail since the first M1's came to market (when there was the M1G, M1 and EZ8). Only reason why category cable is recommended is the same reason why they sell the DBH....to get novices and non-experienced pros familiar with 485 wiring topology which isn't and hasn't been common with many panels in the past.
While it does have the UTP construction, how the cabling is terminated negates most of the benefits of the cable construction....so it's really about getting conductor density to a non-standard keypad data topology (every other manufacturer is 3 or 4 conductors, less those that have Z inputs or outputs)
I spoke with Elk's engineering about this in great detail since the first M1's came to market (when there was the M1G, M1 and EZ8). Only reason why category cable is recommended is the same reason why they sell the DBH....to get novices and non-experienced pros familiar with 485 wiring topology which isn't and hasn't been common with many panels in the past.
While it does have the UTP construction, how the cabling is terminated negates most of the benefits of the cable construction....so it's really about getting conductor density to a non-standard keypad data topology (every other manufacturer is 3 or 4 conductors, less those that have Z inputs or outputs)
