Failed LV Inspection - Am I Stupid?

[brotsten]

Hi all,

Out of town on a trip, my wife called and said I failed my low voltage inspection.

When I was ordering my wire, they were out of white 22-4 which I was using for alarm switches and misc. They asked if they could sub red, and I said sure.

The inspector says I need to pull the 5000' of red wire from everything but the smokes and rewire. He said I could have used white for everything including the smokes, but not red.

If this is truly the case, my plan is to pull the daisy chains for the alarm switches and replace them with white wire and leave the home runs and tell him I'm putting in about 50 smoke/heat detectors...

Any better ideas?

Signed,

What a dummy...

 

[Squintz]

You might want to check the codes and contact the inspector and pray that he is a nice guy. Sometimes you can get aways with marking the wires using 6" of White electrical tape. Some inspectors won't let that fly tho. Perhaps since it is your own home they may. I would certainly do a little research before you yank all the wires tho. What city and state are you in?

 

[CORT]

The wire is functionally equivalent, but a different color jacket and the inspector wants it all pulled. That sounds rediculous. Can he find a citation in the code to support this? What happens if you tell him to "shove it"?

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

This is interesting because the electrical wiring in my entire home (track home) is wired with red 3c12 romex!

 

[Squintz]

Is it the cable or the inside conductors which are the problem? If it's the cable then I don't know of any code that says it has to be a specific color. I know each conductor has to be maked by a certain color. I need to go dig out my code book.

 

[TCassio]

I beleive that smoke and fire alarm low voltage wires have to be red so they are eaisly identifiable, so if someone down the road (in time) is doing some work and they see a red wire they now not to mess with it. I guess if you cut one of these wires you could potentially disable the entire smoke and fire detection system.

 

[Timoh]

So interesting to see different constructions and codes. Up here in Canada (Not sure if it's national or just Québec), you must use white wire for 120v runs and red for 240v runs where there is no neutral. My kitchen plugs are on two circuits per plug so they have a white wire with three conductors inside (white, black, red, +ground). But my hot water tank has a red wire with two conductors inside (black, red, +ground). Interesting to see that the red wire in the photo looks like it has three conductors inside since I can see white, black and red in the box.

I know for low voltage you can't wire fire circuits with white, but I think we are allowed to wire non-fire with red.

Not that it really helps you... Just find it interesting to see different codes.

Also up here, we need to put some x-bracing in the walls at 4 feet to stop the wood from twisting as it dries out over the years.

But the best thing in Quebec.... No inspections! We need to go and get a building permit from the town and that's it! So we can build at our own rate, not worry about when we can close up the walls, plumbing, foundation, footing, etc waiting for inspection.

Merely interesting....
Tim

 

[Sandpiper]

The National Fire alarm code (NFPA 72) does not specify wire requirements, but defers to the NEC (NFPA 70). NEC Article 760 (pertaining to Fire Alarm systems) does not mention any color as a requirement. As long as the cable is identified as FPL or an allowable substitute, this will meet the NEC.

Local or state requirements may vary, however.

 

[brotsten]

I'm back in town and have more details. I have been reading the NEC. It's not the color per se, but the rating. It's FPLR, the inspector referenced table 725.61 which lists cable substitutions for low voltage wiring, other than Fire Protection.

My electrician spoke with him and he said he realized the cable was "as good or better" then what is listed in the table, but it's not listed in the table for use on security alarms.

My plan is to remove all the FPLR that is daisy chained between window switches in each room and replace it with CL2 rated cable. I will then re-label the home-runned window and door switches which are all FPLR cable as 1)Emergency door release, 2)Fire alarm sounder, 3)Heat Detector or 4) Smoke detector.

I am going to re pull the FPLR 18 gauge running between my Centralite panels and the Centralite Controllers with the CL2 rated cable as that should only take a couple of hours.

Whatever I have left at that point will be labeling with one of the four options above and, if needed, I will explain to the inspector I am paranoid about fire and being burned and every red (FPLR) cable left is for the fire protection system.

Wish me luck....

Brian

 

[AutomatedOutlet]

Local or state requirements may vary, however.

I think that this is the key.....

 

[jlehnert]

This is interesting because the electrical wiring in my entire home (track home) is wired with red 3c12 romex!

Jaw drop. Unbelievable! Not anywere near current NEC, but as it's been pointed out, codes vary by location. Surprised though, as most of the larger cities tend to stay rather close to NEC.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

This is interesting because the electrical wiring in my entire home (track home) is wired with red 3c12 romex!

Jaw drop. Unbelievable! Not anywere near current NEC, but as it's been pointed out, codes vary by location. Surprised though, as most of the larger cities tend to stay rather close to NEC.

Like they say, what happens in Las Vegas stays in Las Vegas!

 

[Digger]

Like they say, what happens in Las Vegas stays in Las Vegas!

You must live in the "Red Wire District"

 

[brotsten]

Update, I had my re-inspection today.

Different inspector. He asked me if I changed out some red wire. I showed him one door where I replaced the really nice wire I had that was rated FLPR with some really crappy stuff from Home Depot that had a CL3 rating. He looked at the markings on the cable and said "OK" and didn't look at anything else....

Glad I spent four days working on that....

Later I found a problem with my wiring and promptly ran some more RED wire!

Brian

 

[CollinR]

Why are you wanting to use FLPR so badly? At least it seems as though you would.

I personally use different colors to denote different functions, I know the rules don't say you can't use red but I only do so on fire related equipment.

This way in the future when you modify/add/repair it's basically a no brainer. I know which wire does what or roughly anyway just by the wire color.