Finally Did It!

[ver0776]

It might not be necessarily high margin, but super-reliable is the key. Support costs money. Frustrated customers cost alot of money, both in support and in the bad press they give you. Building a system purely on lots of high level bits that you glue together is never as reliable because the automation system vendor cannot control the quality.

Well, they want big margins too. BUT I said it all makes sense for them. I don't have an issue in the world with how the professional market works. It is just not the same priorities as the DIY market (my world).

You are right about web pages, if you look at what HAS been made and not what is coming...

1. 640x480 available on every type of device.
2. Windows CE 5
3. USB on PDAs & Phones
4. FLASH! Flash allows the custom graphics to make any kind of skin...
5. .NET 2005...

Give .NET/CE 5 a little time for the applications to start rolling out. I am not sure how well Flash would stand up as a PDA/HA interface. It has the potential, but not sure where it is right now. I know Yahoo.com is hard to use on my phone, but that is not what I see when looking at the new generation of hardware and development tools.

Hey, I didn't mean to go off topic on Huggy. Grats on the 2.1 upgrade man. Did version 2 upgrade the PDA client (to tie our topics =) Is there screenshots of the HS PDA interfaces?

Vaughn

 

[Dean Roddey]

1. 640x480 available on every type of device.

This is not really necessarily true either. Yes, with a vector based system you can draw a single interface that will run on a 320x240 PPC up to a 15" touch screen. But either it's going to woefully underuse the real estate of the 15" touch screen (with enormous buttons), or it'll be unuslable on the 320x240 PPC because the items will be super-tiny.

There's only so much scaling that you can get as a practical matter, so you will usually still end up drawing separate interfaces for small and large screens, in order to get optimal use of both.

Even the difference between a small 640x480 screen and a 15" 1024x768 screen is going be enough that you'd want separate interfaces drawn for both as a practical matter.

 

[DavidL]

Hi vaughn, Cinemar has had Flash based pocketpc applications for HA / HT control for a few years now. It works just fine.
The PPC is used as a client in a client/server architecture.
We are removing the Designer out of Cinemar's principal product - MainLobby, and when that is done, a PPC MainLobby would then be available that you can custom design all your scenes and assign function in a Flash application.

 

[ver0776]

DavidL,
Sorry for not looking myself, but are there some screenshots of what you guys have done in flash? Do you think, with your flash exposure, that an interactive floorplan could be made using flash?

Dean,
I never said anything about designing one screen at one resolution for all devices. I was just saying once you have 640x480 on a small device, you can make robust screens. If I was accessing it from the internet, I may have a 22"+ screen and would like more robust interfaces made for 1024x768 or better.

It is kind of accepted that you have full versions and mobile versions of web pages... What is in question is whether you can have a mobile version that is good enough using standard development tools and not relying on expensive proprietary designs. I think the things I listed allow that these days.

Vaughn

 

[DavidL]

Hi Vaughan, just visit www.cinemaronline.com and you will see lots of flash screenshots.
Here is a floorplan view:
http://www.cinemaronlineforums.com/forum/v...r=asc&&start=15
Also, search here for Brave Sir Robbins very cool garage door opener that Cinemar developed in Flash for an animated door that shows the door open from 0 -100 steps. As the door raises, you see if BSR's car is in the garage, tires, then decklid, then roof, then all open. Very neat. And, only fluently done in Flash.

 

[AutomatedOutlet]

Martin,
I'll hold my comments on this. I'm obviously biased so my opinion doesn't carry much weight. Ski states the facts best albeit harshly at times. I'm not here to cause problems or to offend anyone but to offer information.

Rupp, I know that and I know you're a great guy. We've talked on the phone several times and I always respect your opinion. Your intentions are always good and you go out of your way to help people.

Yeah, Ski is a good example - probably the biggest HS basher at one time and is now a happy camper.

Keep smiling Rupp! I just didn't want to see CT get labeled like that when I really don't think it's true.

 

[huggy59]

I've done the web-based interface before (IIS, HS, custom ASP, Audreys, Inet access, IE, etc., etc., etc.), it's too slow and there are too many drawbacks with security, audio, various touchscreen and remote small interface devices in many cases for what I want. And whoever said there are "standards" on the web interface must not realize how difficult it is to build a web interface that handles the different clients' issues, streaming, DHTML, etc. Call me picky. I'm also really cheap - I try to use devices that cost less than $100 each. Thisis a hobby and part of the challenge is to do it all without spending next year's paychecks on it.

I'm not into Flash, either, but I can see how that would scale a little better for most devices that support it. It takes graphics power that I'm not sure is needed for my purposes. WAP is probably ok (menu select) and I have tried out the WAPSeer interface under HS 1.7 before. (I even had that working locally using the old Cybiko Xtreme devices, but they don't have a backlight!)

The whole reason I mentioned the cell phone thing was that those of us who use them tend to keep cell phones on or near us, so that naturally makes for an opportunity to fold some control aspects into the devices. If you don't use a cell phone, then that may not be the best mechanism for you. but for me, I think I'd like a menu item that gives me up to 10 button presses for vairous macros - select the Home Control menu, then hit 1 and it tells the HA system to run some script, etc.

Then again, I don't have a home theater per se, and I don't need to be able to pass around a tablet remote. I live alone or with my girlfriend, don't have a lot of visitors, and don't need a show-off system. I'd like to simplify the A/V control so it is one-button source selection, mostly for her (WAF), so I'll probably build that up again.

But I really would like to issue voice commands via an intercom in my cell or wifi phone to the HA system. Solves the issues of open-air mics, etc. I'm also looking at the VoIP wifi phones, but in my case that would be adding another device... and they aren't cheap right now.

So everyone can do it their way.

Hehehe, I need to wire up the house for low voltage first, though!

 

[Dean Roddey]

The whole reason I mentioned the cell phone thing was that those of us who use them tend to keep cell phones on or near us, so that naturally makes for an opportunity to fold some control aspects into the devices. If you don't use a cell phone, then that may not be the best mechanism for you. but for me, I think I'd like a menu item that gives me up to 10 button presses for vairous macros - select the Home Control menu, then hit 1 and it tells the HA system to run some script, etc.

A number of our clients run our .Net Interface Viewer on their cell phones, so you don't have to memorize buttons, you can have a graphical interface on the cell phone to do control. They all use it in addition to other, larger, interfaces on bigger touch screens though, since it's not something you are going to very easily do media browsing and so forth, because of limited real estate.

 

[Rupp]

Huggy,
Just pick up the cell phone and call HomeSeer and issue voice commands. That's the easiest. You can also just pickup your cordless phones and issue commands as well. Cheap fast and easy.

 

[Dean Roddey]

How do you enforce security on that? Can anyone with the phone number call up and start making changes?

 

[Rupp]

How do you enforce security on that? Can anyone with the phone number call up and start making changes?

External calls have a pin number, Internal calls after hitting the pound sound, are executed as they are spoken.

 

[huggy59]

That's true, Rupp. Call me cheap or crazy - I want to eliminate dependency on the phone company to control the house once I'm home. That is, when I'm home, I want my control system to work entirely local, with no dependence on an outside service other than power. Self-contained. Protected. Cocooned. LOL

The new devices with multiple communications mechanisms are getting there.

 

[huggy59]

Dean, I use a Treo 600. Does .NET for the Palm OS exist?

 

[Dean Roddey]

I don't think so. Our DNV is a .Net 2.0 (which is WinCE 5.0 as I understand it) based, so it needs ot be a fairly new device.

 

[TonyNo]

Time to upgrade (?) to a 700w!

Actually, not. I heard a favorable review was pulled by the author after living with it for a while!