Forgive me if I'm completely green on this subject - irrigation

[charliebarns]

We're about to embark on the landscaping/irrigation of our new home and I have some general questions about integrating irrigation with my HAI system. The installer is recommending Toro or Rainbird as the irrigation system of choice. I read briefly on the Rain8 UPB system HAI works with. My question is..... Can you take any irrigation system and add the Rain8 controller to it? My laymen understanding of irrigation is that I should be able to since a pipe is a pipe. But I don't want to make the wrong choice only to find out later the integration with my home automation will be much more difficult than it should be.

Thx

CB

 

[nov0798]

Why not just write rules within the ELK to open and close relays such as the ELK-M1RB, or use the ELK-M1XOVR ? Let the M1 be the controller. You can also write rules for odd/even watering schedule, and times of day.
Also there are rule examples and such at the M1 dealer website at the following address http://m1dealer.elkproducts.com.
Signup for an account and have at it!

 

[Rupp]

We're about to embark on the landscaping/irrigation of our new home and I have some general questions about integrating irrigation with my HAI system. The installer is recommending Toro or Rainbird as the irrigation system of choice. I read briefly on the Rain8 UPB system HAI works with. My question is..... Can you take any irrigation system and add the Rain8 controller to it? My laymen understanding of irrigation is that I should be able to since a pipe is a pipe. But I don't want to make the wrong choice only to find out later the integration with my home automation will be much more difficult than it should be.

Thx

CB

Yes, a controller is a controller and all they do in the end is open and close contacts.

 

[Steve]

Unless you have some sort of weird hi tech valves then a valve uses a simple 24V solenoid that can be controlled by a simple on/off relay. I had mine run through my Elk as described above but on my renovation I decided to go with a Rain8. I also think I am going to put it on my CQC server instead of the Omni simply because there is such a complete and cool driver for it. Since I always prefer wires where possible, I would lean toward the Rain8Net over the Rain8UPB. If you don't have a pc with a driver for it (check here) then it will work fine with the Omni too, Look here for info on integrating the Rain8Net with the OPII. I went for the Rain8Net Pro.

 

[ano]

Why not just write rules within the ELK to open and close relays such as the ELK-M1RB, or use the ELK-M1XOVR ? Let the M1 be the controller. You can also write rules for odd/even watering schedule, and times of day.
Also there are rule examples and such at the M1 dealer website at the following address http://m1dealer.elkproducts.com.
Signup for an account and have at it!

The problem with using the HAI relays directly to switch the irrigation relays is you would really need two relays for every zone; one in the panel and one next to the zone valve. Running long wiring from the valves outside to the relays in the panel is not a good idea because of both voltage drop, and the possibility of lightning hitting the valves outside and burning out the panel. You could mount the HAI relays outside, but then you have low-voltage lines running back to the panel, also not a good idea.

The UPB Rain8 is likely the best solution.

 

[pete_c]

I let the sprinkler company install a Rainbird controller. I also hung around when they were installing pvc tubing. I paid them some extra for running multiple 1.5" tubes out to the ends of the property. With these run (6 or so years ago) I was able to wire corner burms with low voltage lighting etc. The back yard corner burms have three sets of PVC tubes. One 120VAC/12VDC/Siamese cable & Cat5.

The first thing I did after the Rainbird installation was to rearrange the zone wires in an order so that they made sense to me. About 6 months later removed the Rainbird controller and replaced it with two Rain8's with a serial connection. I noticed the same with the Rainbird wired zone order in FL; so redid these too. Here in the MW lines are buried about 1 foot down and a black flexible PVC line was used. In FL white PVC tubing was used nearer to the surface (glued pieces together). I don't have self draining sprinkler heads installed so I clear the lines every fall when I remove my RPZ valve.

I utilize MCSSprinkler Pro / HSPro. Its been a few years now.

I use both my weather station / internet weather for the ET moisture content of the soil. I also use wind speed, etc. Most recently have added a water meter just for sprinkler system so that I could also utilize that.

 

[pete_c]

Here's a quick snapshot of the TS Sprinkler interface.

 

[charliebarns]

Thanks to all for the responses! I'm now much more educated on irrigation systems and integration with my HAI or CQC box. I'll go with the Rain8Net Pro and just have the irrigation guy install the lines/valves without a head controller. I'll report the progress. Thx to Pete_C also for the pics!

CB


edit: damn typos! not=now

 

[Steve]

Sorry Charlie, didn't realize you were a CQC user. Like I mentioned, you should have a look at the work jkish did. His templates are here. There is a link in that post for the driver itself. That has to be one of the most complete and sophisticated irrigation templates I've seen. I probably won't use half of the info myself but it is very well done. If you can get a cable from the Rain8 to to the CQC server I would use the Rain8 net, not upb.

 

[charliebarns]

Sorry Charlie, didn't realize you were a CQC user. Like I mentioned, you should have a look at the work jkish did. His templates are here. There is a link in that post for the driver itself. That has to be one of the most complete and sophisticated irrigation templates I've seen. I probably won't use half of the info myself but it is very well done. If you can get a cable from the Rain8 to to the CQC server I would use the Rain8 net, not upb.

Hey thanks Steve. jkish has done some awesome work there! Now if I can ever get around to finishing my cqc implementation!


CB

 

[PaulD]

I have mine connected to relays on my Omni Pro II but I included a Zap Control in the circuit to help protect against a lightning surge. I know that nothing will help when you get a direct hit from lightning but it is better than nothing.

 

[ano]

If you can get a cable from the Rain8 to to the CQC server I would use the Rain8 net, not upb.

Also, if I remember correctly, there was a problem with the CQC UPB driver that prevented it from fully working with the UPB Rain8.

 

[apostolakisl]

Elk runs my zones directly. The lines are very long and the 24 volts makes it just fine. A direct lightning strike to the yard that gets into the control lines is a possibility but pretty darn low. It isn't like a phone line dangling in the air. It is buried in the ground which is where lightning is trying to go, so i don't know why it would come out of the ground and into my house.

Does anyone know anyone who has had a sprinkler controller get fried by lighting via coming in the control wires? I would be very interested to know becuase if so, I might consider putting fuses in the lines. I might just do it anyway, should be real cheap.

I know lots of people who have voltage spikes come in the power lines (me included). I have a whole house surge supressor for that. I wonder if those things really work? Sort of a leap of faith.

 

[nov0798]

Yea the chance of lightning striking a valve or a power surge coming through the wires back into the controller is probably next to zero. There are other avenues for the lightning to go, and the ground is not the path of least resistance.

 

[pete_c]

My sprinkler manifold / relays are mounted about 10 feet from the house buried in a burm. The wires run along side of the house about 40 feet or so then go into the basement adjacent to the main sprinkler egress water pipe. Its been six years now. I did connect the Rain-Bird rain detector (which is mounted high on the roof) to a DS-10a but the wire still travels to the Rain-Bird box and is adjacent to the zone relay wires.