Front End for HomeSeer 2.x based system

[RandyKnight]

I realize that, was just thinking it could be something to get you by. Doesn't require a lot of configuring (I believe, have not dealt with it myself) to get some basic functionality.

The biggest issue is I use the Location and Location2 fields differently than TouchPad wants you to. Plus I needed and excuse to get off my butt and learn AJAX and upgrade my skillset to .NET 3 anyway. I don't do web development at work anymore, but I lead projects with web dev's on them so I should speak their language.

 

[DavidL]

RandyKnight,
Yes, the MainLobby Design interface was NOT designed for developers that have lots of experience with software development tools. Quite frankly, that would scare the bejesus out of the majority of dealers and users. I am curious on how you proceed, and THEN how long it took you to get there. Not to mention the end results, which is very subjective, of course.

We now have the MainLobby Suite Installer down to a working system in 20 minutes when installed to a cleanly working Windows PC. Definition of "working" means the software based components are all functional: Add a Movie from the touchscreen, Play a movie, listen to a song, see the Weather, View horoscopes, play onscreen included games, see callerID (need hardware configuration, which is a comport selection), etc. The version of the software to do all of this should be available this week.

Now, once that base install is done, one can take as much time as they want / need to customize it as far as you want to go.

As far as the .Net goes, there have been no stability issues with MLHSPlugin. Part of the "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" philosophy. Krumpy did an excellent job with it and has many, many users using it. Likely more than most total customer base of some of the other systems around.

 

[RandyKnight]

RandyKnight,
Yes, the MainLobby Design interface was NOT designed for developers that have lots of experience with software development tools. Quite frankly, that would scare the bejesus out of the majority of dealers and users. I am curious on how you proceed, and THEN how long it took you to get there. Not to mention the end results, which is very subjective, of course.

We now have the MainLobby Suite Installer down to a working system in 20 minutes when installed to a cleanly working Windows PC. Definition of "working" means the software based components are all functional: Add a Movie from the touchscreen, Play a movie, listen to a song, see the Weather, View horoscopes, play onscreen included games, see callerID (need hardware configuration, which is a comport selection), etc. The version of the software to do all of this should be available this week.

Now, once that base install is done, one can take as much time as they want / need to customize it as far as you want to go.

As far as the .Net goes, there have been no stability issues with MLHSPlugin. Part of the "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" philosophy. Krumpy did an excellent job with it and has many, many users using it. Likely more than most total customer base of some of the other systems around.

Like I said, I think MainLobby is a great program with lots going for it. And I'm not trying to bash it in any way. I just found the designer tedious for me is all, which is admittedly biased based on my development background. I'm sure it's great for installers / end users.

And I'm sure you'd agree that integrating lighting (100+ loads), Pool, Thermostats, etc. via the MLHSPlugin is not a 20 minute install.

 

[DavidL]

"And I'm sure you'd agree that integrating lighting (100+ loads), Pool, Thermostats, etc. via the MLHSPlugin is not a 20 minute install. "

No, absolutely not. That is why I "defined" "working". That's always a challenge.

With devices like Vantage Infusion, this is much easiser, because we import their device settings and auto create MLServer entries. Same with HAI. With Insteon, we pull the device link table out of the UPB module, and then the user just has to assign a name to it for use in MainLobby3. Still more than 20 minutes, but much easier than ever before

 

[gregking]

Yes, avoid MainLobby.

After spending 100s of $$'s, I literally waited for a year for them to fix bugs in their product. No updates ever came about. Instead, they were focusing all of their effort on the 3.0 release and weren't concerned with supporting the 2.x folks. Then when they released 3.0, it still had the same terrible UI even though a new one was promised. Instead of fixing the design, they concentrated on making it more of an automation system. From what I could tell, the 3.0 UI still had most of the bugs of the previous one.

To see this in detail, look at their "News&Announcement" forum from 04/04-04/05 and notice how many updates were made to the program compared to the time after that. Other than a couple of minor updates to the graphix libs, there was essentially no support after 04/05.

gk

MainLobby


1. Perhaps it's because I've been developing in Windows since it was new and I know .NET, Visual Studio, etc. but I find the MainLobby UI designer incredibly painful and tedious. A Visual Studio style designer where you could have multiple MLS files open, a toolbox, bigger code windows for ML and MLServeCommands, etc. would make it much more useful. Again, this may be based on my development background and the way it is now may be great for non-developers.

2. Given the above and the fact that I do have extensive software development experience in .NET, I really think I can build my own custom web pages and/or Windows Forms apps to do the same thing ML would do for me in the same (or even less) amount of time. And it's free.

I am of course interested in any comments on the above from seasoned MainLobby users.

 

[gregking]

Yeah, clicking 100 times to change a new item's position in the z-order list (as you click to individually move it relative to every item on the screen) is so much more intuitive than clicking "Move to Top" or "Send to Back". Obviously, MS Powerpoint is geared toward "power developers".

Yes, the MainLobby Design interface was NOT designed for developers that have lots of experience with software development tools. Quite frankly, that would scare the bejesus out of the majority of dealers and users. I am curious on how you proceed, and THEN how long it took you to get there. Not to mention the end results, which is very subjective, of course.

 

[DavidL]

GregKing,
Sorry you feel that way (really).

For the record,
There were 41 builds of just the MainLobby client in 2006 and 37 builds in 2007 alone. In MLServer3, there were 18 builds in 2006, 36 in 2007, and 4 so far in 2008. That is only the two main components. There are over a hundred components now to meet individual user system needs, each one having it's own update path.

There was a high concentration of development resources when going from MainLobby 2, to MainLobby3. We feel (and so do our current customers) that it was well worth the wait. The number of customers that upgraded is testament that we have a loyal following. I believe the majority thought it was well worth the upgrade charge, and have received the above updates free of charge since then.

Each build has both features added and bug fixes. There are detailed release notes on our documentation wiki.

True, all software (including MainLobby) has lots of areas that can be made better or better suited to a particular style of user. The Z-order forward / back is an area of opportunity (though not a bug, but a feature improvement). Interesting comparison of Microsoft (one of the richest company's in the world) products to Cinemars (surely not even close to that position). Not sure I would even know what to do with all of the resources on tap at Microsoft. Amazing company. But, one can go to any forum and find tons of opportunity that even Microsoft has. It is a never ending battle.

We are pretty comfortable that our dealers can build a system that competes with pretty much any automation and media control system on the planet. Far exceeding the ability of Microsoft's Media Center.

I assume you have found another solution, and hopefully that is working out. You might just want to demo the latest Cinemar has to offer if interested. Now, you will likely find lots of opportunity even with our latest, but there is no reason why you can't construct a kick butt system in short order.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Mario puts just one new icon in MainLobby, you consider that a "build".

 

[jwilson56]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Mario puts just one new icon in MainLobby, you consider that a "build".

 

[DavidL]

See for yourself (and determine for yourself if you "stand corrected"):
http://www.cinemaronlineforums.com/wiki/in...ease_Notes_2007

http://www.cinemaronlineforums.com/wiki/in...ease_Notes_2007

Some builds have more than others. A build is put out if we have accomplished an update that means something to our users that has gone through enough testing to release. Sometimes the fix or update is for one customer's immediate need. Most of the time, it has multiple features / issues resolved (and graphical components added that provide value). BTW, in the world of Flash, even a graphical component has coding in it. It's not just a pretty picture. You should know that BSR, when we custom developed flash graphics for your pet projects (an example of an update for One).

For example, the "build" we are working on right now has one man year of effort into just the movie management component. This one is exceptional, no doubt. It has been in beta for six months. It has been in final testing for one month.

 

[RandyKnight]

I certainly didn't mean to start a MainLobby war.

But it appears I'm not the only one that finds the UI painful.

 

[IVB]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Mario puts just one new icon in MainLobby, you consider that a "build".

See for yourself (and determine for yourself if you "stand corrected"):

Hmmmm. I see:

Release Notes for 11/09/07 - Version 3.00.105
BugFix
• Sometimes the buttons in the overlays were not getting removed when moving across scenes

Release Notes for 09/06/07 - Version 3.00.85 - Release 2
Added Objects • 0019_0558 • 0019_0559 • 0019_0560 • 0019_0561 • 0019_0562

Release Notes for 04/12/07 - Version 3.00.77
Changes • Rolled back Font Color selector to only Swatches due to a bug

Release Notes for 04/11/07 - Version 3.00.76 [RELEASE 3]
Changes • 800x480 scenes were being installed to the incorrect folder

There's others too, I stopped after that, but that proves the point that there's no correction necessary (although I guess V.85 had *4* icons in it, so that was a big one)

 

[DavidL]

Well, I see CQC had three releases. With approx. similar scale of updates as MainLobby had in similar period. Hard to compare as it's never apples to apples.

To compare, you would have to go into each of Cinemar's products and look at the various feature updates in each. CQC bundles things together, not just from a price point, but also in releases. Cinemar releases each product on it's own, and there are many more products as it is ala carte. The release notes "discussed" so far are only two of those products. It looks like for each release, CQC has one significant product update, and then driver updates.

MainLobby has multiple smaller releases across many more products.

Homeseer is similar to Cinemar, in that there updates are also across many different components. Their core updates are to HS2 as MainLobby's are to MainLobby3 Client and MainLobby3 Server.

Here is another product of the many and it's updates (just as example):

***********************
2/23/08 v 3.0.439
Updated scripting capability same as MLScripts
More details to follow in Wiki

***********************
2/16/08 v 3.0.433
Some code cleanup

***********************
2/15/08 v 3.0.430

Plugin dates extended

***********************
2/14/08 v 3.0.427

Resolution for Can't Open Tables Error.

***********************
12/3/07 v 3.0.405
Plugin updated with changes to licensing to resolve device edit issue.
- Adds double click editing of the device and commands. Right clicking on these items will create a new item.


***********************
10/29/2007 V 3.0.393 released
Plugin updated to resove timeout

***********************
9/28/2007 V 3.0.367 released
Plugin updated to resove timeout

***********************
8/27/2007 V 3.0.347 released.
Resolves local install path issue.

***********************
8/22/2007 V 3.0.312 released.
Adds more scripting ability
***********************
V 3.0.291 released.
Adds ability to send a hex string for some ASCII based devices that require some hex strings

***********************
V 3.0.277 released.
Adds significant power by allowing for a device return message string to be parsed and create multiple variables for tracking of status(s).

***********************


It is appearing obvious that the responders are only interested in slams so the conversation is now not of value. I never quite ever got the "Vista" vs. "XP" vs. "Linux" "debates" either. No wonder why mods always have to kill those threads.

 

[IVB]

Well, I see CQC had three releases. With approx. similar scale of updates as MainLobby had in similar period. Hard to compare as it's never apples to apples.

To compare, you would have to go into each of Cinemar's products and look at the various feature updates in each. CQC bundles things together, not just from a price point, but also in releases. Cinemar releases each product on it's own, and there are many more products as it is ala carte. The release notes "discussed" so far are only two of those products. It looks like for each release, CQC has one significant product update, and then driver updates.

MainLobby has multiple smaller releases across many more products.

Homeseer is similar to Cinemar, in that there updates are also across many different components. Their core updates are to HS2 as MainLobby's are to MainLobby3 Client and MainLobby3 Server.

It is appearing obvious that the responders are only interested in slams so the conversation is now not of value.

Chill out David, you seriously do not want to bring CQC into this. I certainly haven't, and certainly won't correct your statements above as the OP isn't interested in it.

I'm not slamming anyone, only pointing out the truth. What exactly did I post that was a slam? BSR said something about 1 icon being in a build, you told him to see if he'd correct himself, all I did was copy/paste from *your* release notes.

Seems like less of a slam, and more of a "pointing out the truth" to me.

 

[DavidL]

The reason for bringing CQC and Homeseer into it, is to compare the style differences between the companies choices of packaging and then releases. Not sure why I don't want to "seriously don't want to bring CQC into this". There are pros and cons to the different strategies.

Yes, there can be ONE graphic in a release. If someone asked us to do that for them and they didn't want to wait a quarter of a year for it. If find it interesting because BSR's comment of the "one graphic" was that He was a recipient of that One graphic that he at the time got satisfaction out of, and wrote a whole article on his implementation with which the "graphic" was of value to. In reality it was a Flash Movie script (with many graphics built into it) that also had scripting in it. But, we can just toss that into the pile as a "graphic".

As the core graphics are contained in a Flash Library, that includes Actionscript, the library is compiled into a "build". So, yes, to add One graphic requires a Build. This is different from non Flash where the graphics are only just that, a picture. They don't necessarily have to be compiled into a "build" but just released onto a webserver for download. It's a slightly different paradigm, that I suspect Dean understands, not sure that non developers do, especially if they don't have any experience with Flash.