Garage door opener question

[Ira]

My GDO is about five years old. It's one of the upper-end Genie units (I think it's called the "Excelerator" or something like that). Like most of them, it has a wall-mounted control that is connected to terminals on the opener via two conductors. Again like most, the control has a button that turns the light on/off and a button to open/close the door. Does anyone know how the GDO differentiates between the two buttons? How does it know I've pressed the open/close button vs. the light button? Could some other device connected to the same GDO terminals in parallel also recognize and differentiate between the two?

Thanks,
Ira

 

[Spanky]

The GDO probably works in one of two ways:
1. There is a separate wire for the light and the door.
2. There is a resistor divider in the button assembly that gives two different voltage levels to control the two devices.

I use the ELK M1 to control the garage door remotely:
I use normally open relay contact terminals across the terminals at the GDO to remotely open and close the garage door. I wrote a Rule in the M1 to activate the relay for 2 seconds when one of the function keys on the keypad is pressed. You can also wire up a switch on the door and feed the contacts into one of the M1 inputs. Select the function key illumination to turn on when the door is open.

 

[Ira]

The GDO probably works in one of two ways:
1. There is a separate wire for the light and the door.
2. There is a resistor divider in the button assembly that gives two different voltage levels to control the two devices.

I use the ELK M1 to control the garage door remotely:
I use normally open relay contact terminals across the terminals at the GDO to remotely open and close the garage door. I wrote a Rule in the M1 to activate the relay for 2 seconds when one of the function keys on the keypad is pressed. You can also wire up a switch on the door and feed the contacts into one of the M1 inputs. Select the function key illumination to turn on when the door is open.

I think it's option 2 since there are only two conductors. I found another thread that says for some two-wire controls, it is a dead short for the opener button and some diodes get involved when the light button is pressed.

I've got the garage door sensor but haven't wired it up yet. One of these days I need to stop just buying stuff for projects and actually do some of them.

Thanks,
Ira

 

[pipeman]

How does it know I've pressed the open/close button vs. the light button? Could some other device connected to the same GDO terminals in parallel also recognize and differentiate between the two?

Are you looking to control the light on the GDO from the ELK or catch a button press on the GDO manual switch, or catch any instance when the light is on?

Makes me think about the "LOCK" button on my manual GDO switch (for vacation, away etc to disable the radio remote activation). That function could probably be automated too.

Sonny

 

[pete_c]

I wired my GDO into my HAI panel but have built a kind of saftey on it so that it cannot be opened by mistake but can always be closed. IE: put in NO switches in two doors for a closed open loop type event. The only other interface for HA I would most likely do is just disable all functions on the GDO via a powerline switch rather than playing with the garage door controllers themselves. A while ago in my old home I automated some features on the garage door integrated with the alarm panel and had some hiccups with the setup relating to WAF ......

I would be interested though in what you come up with relating to utilizing the GDO switch (mine too has the vacation lock, lights, etc)

 

[sic0048]

If you are just looking to control the GDO, I think the easiest way is to run a pair of wires to the GDO wall mount control and hardwire them into the main button contacts. Then wire this into a relay. Most of the wall mounted units use simple contact switches for control. This makes it super easy to wire a relay across the contacts and control if via the automation system. When you want to open/close the door, the relay energizes for 2-3 seconds emulating someone pressing the button on the wall unit. You could add more pairs of wires and connect them to the light control and the lock control button as well.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Or an even easier way without running any wiring to the garage!

http://www.cocoontech.com/portal/articles/...wireless-remote

 

[pete_c]

Nice wireless garage door implementation!

I use both wireless and wired relating to my HA setup.

 

[Ira]

What I'm really attempting to do is duplicate the functions of the GDO's lights with a nearby flourescent tube light fixture, i.e., turn the flourescent fixture on for four minutes when the GDO opens the door, and be able to control the flourescent fixture from the GDO's wall-mounted control light button.

I've thought about controlling the fixture solely from M1G/CQC based on a door sensor, but that doesn't give the control button functions (thus the reason for asking about how it works). I've thought about putting a light bulb socket adapter in the GDO's light socket and running wires to the flourescent fixture, but that doesn't look very clean and it has 120vac wires running semi-exposed. I've thought about plugging a wall wart into the socket adapter and using it to control a relay that controls the floursecent fixture. At least then I only have low voltage wires showing. Last, it's been suggested to leave the light bulbs in the GDO and use a light sensor to detect when they are on/off and control the flourescent fixture via the light sensor. That seems like a waste of energy (unneeded light bulbs on), and the bulbs go bad too frequently due to vibration.

Unless I need more functionality than what I have now, it seems that the best/easist/cleanest solution is a wall wart in the socket adapter powering a relay controlling the flourescent fixture.

You would think that by now, the average GDO would have one or more sets of dry contacts that would allow you to do something like this easily.

Ira

 

[sic0048]

If it were me, I'd go with the cheap and simple solution.

I've thought about putting a light bulb socket adapter in the GDO's light socket and running wires to the flourescent fixture, but that doesn't look very clean and it has 120vac wires running semi-exposed.

You can make it look pretty clean IMHO. You'll basically have an extension cord running across the ceiling from one fixture to the other. You should be able to get an extension cord and cut it to length and use one of the replacement plugs on the end you cut off. Personally I could live with that. Plus it really is the easiest solution.

 

[Ira]

If it were me, I'd go with the cheap and simple solution.

I've thought about putting a light bulb socket adapter in the GDO's light socket and running wires to the flourescent fixture, but that doesn't look very clean and it has 120vac wires running semi-exposed.

You can make it look pretty clean IMHO. You'll basically have an extension cord running across the ceiling from one fixture to the other. You should be able to get an extension cord and cut it to length and use one of the replacement plugs on the end you cut off. Personally I could live with that. Plus it really is the easiest solution.

My preference (although not an absolute requirement) would be to do something that would adhere to the NEC codes and would have passed inspection if it were done in a new home. Since the flourescent fixture would be considered permanently mounted, it cant be wired with an extension cord. Similarly, you aren't supposed to use a plug with Romex wire. Fairly picky details, I know, but I would like to stay within the guidelines. I think the adapter/wart/relay would probably be "safest" way to go. Not very expensive since I have a relay-in-a-box that I can use. I should have a wall wart around here somewhere. The socket adapter is only a couple of dollars.

Ira

 

[Lagerhead]

Does anyone know how the GDO differentiates between the two buttons? How does it know I've pressed the open/close button vs. the light button?

My Lift-Master keysets make a full short for "door open/close" and insert a diode for "light on/off".

Could some other device connected to the same GDO terminals in parallel also recognize and differentiate between the two?

Yes, I have M1RB relays that provide a one-second full short for "door open/close" and insert a diode for one second for "light on/off".

Dave

 

[dutchyn]

My Lift-Master keysets make a full short for "door open/close" and insert a diode for "light on/off".

What model of lifter do you have? Mine, a Liftmaster 3850, uses the "purple" learning button, and seems to be electrically different -- it looks like 12--15 VDC between the lifter and the opener (pad). So diodes no longer control lights; but short seems to open/close. I have an oscilloscope, but I haven't had the time to check out the details for lights on/off and lock on/off. Liftmaster says it's proprietary, and given the availability of cheap microcontrollers, I wouldn't be surprised if they've designed a simple voltage level or signal train protocol.

 

[tmbrown97]

I went really cheap/easy... unscrewed the lighbulbs from the openers, put in a UPB switch, and use the contacts on the garage doors to turn the lights on as the door to the garage from the house, or either of the big garage doors open. Very high WAF - lights never get left on, but we can see when we come in/out of the house with our hands full. And my side of the garage, the far side, didn't have lights in the opener; no more stumbling in the dark for me. With the UPB switch, everything else is handled in the Elk with rules.

Honestly seems like a lot of effort to use the GDO's switch... If you're using any sort of lighting technology, I wouldn't wire the fluorescents into the opener; I'd use a smart switch (UPB, X10, ZWave - whatever) on the lights, then get the signal from the GDO light. Maybe the socket adapter and a 120V relay to send a signal; or a DS10a, or something like that.

Last but not least - an old buddy of mine raved about using a Contactor to do exactly what you're describing, without any lighting technologies. I'm not finding anything great in a quick search - I may ask him tomorrow if he has any links.

 

[Dave X10]

I went really cheap/easy...

I had thought I went the cheap easy way. To me... really good automation should be simple and reliable. Cheap enough I don't need to discuss the purchase with the wife.... or train her in how to use it.

I had worked for the government for many years... to save electric at work they had installed motion sensor switches at the doors. First the sensors appeared in restrooms... then in rooms everywhere. After a few years... it became normal to step into a dark room... fully expecting the lights to automatically come on.

Shortly after we moved into our present home... the wife was carrying items into the house from the car.. parked in the driveway. It was at sunset when she made the first trip. As she made a few trips she soon found herself in the driveway entering a dark garage. Not only did she have her hands full... but the only switch was at the house side (far end) of the garage.

I installed a motion sensor switch in the garage. The garage door still turns on the the lights by the door-lift motor. And those lights do turn themselves off after a period of time... as does the motion sensor lights. But if for whatever reason if the garage is dark (the sensors don't function in daylight) it will turn on the lights at entry.. even a cars entry.