GE 350 Smoke detector

[wuench]

Yes they are the middle ground between your typical residential 120V install where you must change out your own batteries, and change out your own detectors every 10 years on a manual schedule and the typical 2-wire/4-wire supervised install where you get an indication if there are issues.

They do have self diagnostic LED's to tell you when you need to swap out individual detectors and batteries. I don't see any drawback to that over running dual installs. You will still need to maintain your 120V detectors manually.

Obviously doing a real supervised install is the best case if you can get away with it....

 

[Del91574]

I'm halfway with Ano, but IMHO, given the fact we're only talking 3 detectors here, barring the inability to remove 120VAC from the cabling, the tick marks in the "pros" column vs. the "cons" for the 120V relay units outweigh their use or necessitate running parallel systems.

Without getting into specifics with the AHJ's in that area, their concern is what happens in the case of LV vs. HV units in the case the panel is no longer "serviced" by a contract/company and if you can provide the information that the replacement system is going to meet or exceed the design requirements for the system it's replacing and other components meet code requirements (tandem ring, audible volume, etc.) then it's a no-brainer for them. Their main concern is supervision and what happens if the panel blows up or is no longer under contract.

In the case of the insurers and underwriters, it's the lack of supervision on a system that should be supervised (monitored smokes on a FACP) and a few large key points that are the general issues. The statements I've made, however, are simplifying the big issues, not addressing or providing the entire picture that I've had to discuss ad-nauseum with the AHJ's and insurers, lots of little points and counterpoints involved that led to the enforced decisions by all parties involved.

 

[jschumann]

Are there any 120V Smokes that have built in power supervisor relays?

 

[Del91574]

Not that I know of....since there's 2 operating criteria, battery and line voltage, so you'd need to be able to supervise the entire 120V side and the tandem ring travellers for integrity,in addition to supervise the removal of a detector, which is contrary to how they're wired (typically pigtailed to 14/3) so you're looking at dual voltage even in a normal operating scenario.

 

[rsw686]

I currently have 6 120V FireX smokes interconnected in my house. The house is 10 years old so it is about time to replace the smokes. I've been looking at the GE350 and GE350CX to connect to the panel. Code states you need 120V interconnected battery backed smokes and the GE350 satisfy the requirement.

If I were to repurpose the existing wiring for low voltage smokes a future owner could end up with no protection if they unplugged the alarm. To defeat the 120V battery backed smokes they would not only have to turn off the breaker, but remove all the 9V batteries. To me it seems like the GE350CX is one step up from 120V interconnected smokes.

Is the issue with the AHJ and insurance only if the alarm panel is going to be monitored for fire? From the AHJ point of view they want to limit false alarms from rolling a truck. Using a relay isn't the same as a supervised smoke and more likely to have a false alarm. Likewise insurance would have an issue with a claim if you were receiving a discount for a monitored fire panel and the non supervised smokes didn't sound an alarm. However if I'm only monitoring for burglary and not fire how is connecting the relay to the panel a problem?

 

[ano]

There are many issues, and it varies greatly by your location. I have seem some local regulations that required monitored smoke alarms to be of the photoelectric variety because they tend to resist false alarms, thus not calling the fire department when you burn toast. I have seen others that forbid a ionization type from being monitored, again, because of the false alarm problem. On the other hand the rules require interconnected, battery backed up simple smoke alarms so that anyone can reasonably run. The problem comes when people try to be smart and combine these two separate use cases, and that is where they usually fail. If you have good monitored smokes around your house, adding in a hookup to the required, battery backed up smokes won't usually buy you anything. What you gain in false alarms isn't worth it.

I should add that some local areas require a monitored smoke alarm to reset itself if it should go off, and the fire department only be called if a second alarm should occur within a set period of time. ELK and HAI panels have a setting for that, but a relay hooked up to these other smokes don't support that feature either.

 

[Del91574]

Again, to agree with Ano, there's way too many variations and flavors to address and consider and honestly, the systems and voltages should be kept separate. The 350CX does not address supervision for the 120VAC side, it only provides a connection relay, where the supervision functionality is only from the FACP to the smoke itself, there's nothing supervising the other side of the relay for proper functionality or integrity, which is the crux of the code requirement issue.

The other part is you can physically remove one or all of the detectors on the 120VAC loop, and as long as the single detector is connected to a FACP, you know no foul. Would you do it in your own home, possibly not, but it's contrary to being able to supervise the loop and detectors for integrity.