General questions on new home automation setup

[nick_l]

Thanks for all of your help and patience guys!!! I just ordered the above items (two of the switches), and I will be playing around with them this weekend

I will get the software listed when I get the items in the mail.

Ok, I don't mean this in a mean way, but you have NO idea what you are doing. You need to take a step back and spend a few more weeks (at minimum) reading forums like this one.

1. Figure out what software you want to use. Read the forums of the different software packages in depth. They all have pluses and minuses, but most are not "easy". Most are very powerful and will require a learning curve. Why play with and learn something that you don't ultimately intend to use. That will just tend to confuse and distract you. Make a list of goals for your home automation to achieve, then look for the software that will let you acheive those goals. once you narrow it down to those few, download the trials and see which you like best.

2. I think you are confused regarding protocals, etc. There is no one protocol that will allow you to do everything. Ie, switch off a light and support a wireless microphone. you will need to use multiple technologies like UPB or Z-wave for lighting control, possibly bluetooth for your wireless mic, and your home automation software package will be the thing doing the "listening" and "speaking" and telling the lights and appliances what to do.

3. with regard to interfaces, there is usually only one interface per protocol. For instance, if you decide to go UPB there will be one device that you will connect to your computer that will listen to the "talk" on your powerline from all the switches. This will also be the device that will issue the commands from the computer to turn on or off the lights.

A typical synario may go like this. You would pic up a microphone connected to your computer via bluetooth (or hardwired back to your sound card, or several other methods) and tell your home automation server to start "party mode". Previously you would have defined "party mode" in your HA software as Turning on lights 1, 3, and 5 to 50 percent, setting the a/c to 68° , closing the blinds and turning on your stereo. So now, your system sends commands out via the UPB module we talked about earlier to turn on lights 1, 3, and 5 to 50% percent (depending on the tech you choose and the switches you install, it will then listen for a confirmation that the switches did do what it told them to do). Your system also knows you have an Insteon thermostat so it uses the Insteon PLM that you have previously istalled and tells the thermostat to turn on the a/c and set the temp to 68°. The motorized blinds are connected to a UPB dry contact relay module so the computer tells that to do its thing. Then the computer sends ir commands to your stereo system via the whole house IR system you have installed. Lastly the system tells you via the audio speakers that you hve throughout your house connected to the computers sound card that it has done what you asked.

That's one simple scene and we used several different technologies. We could have used fewer or more, depending on your house, budget ,etc. My point is, to do the things you will want you are going to have to get alot more familiar with several technologies, so I suggest slowing down a little and reading alot more. If you want to see a light go on and off go flip the switch on the wall that's all you are going to be able to accomplish this weekend anyhow.

I hope I didn't offend. We were all noobs once. There is A LOT to take in and it can be as simple or as difficult as you want it to be, but it all takes new knowledge. Have fun and don't get frustrated.


Nick

 

[tmbrown97]

I have to say - I think Nick summed it up best in all of that (most important was the talk of how these are all different technologies that have to be tied together with some sort of controller)... especially combined with previous comments about - unless you have far more time than money, why reinvent the wheel trying to write software? There are several packages out there to choose from. Hell, for many of us, even without having to write the software - just configure it, we have multiple years into our projects.

I think the single most important thing I want to add... if you're not prepared to spend thousands of dollars, you may want to just find a new hobby ahead of time. It doesn't have to all be at once; but realistically - the switches and the boards and the software add up quickly. I'm running security, lighting and HVAC control (plus outputs for sprinklers, garage door, etc) - and I'm up to a good $5K in 2 yrs. Of course there are cheaper ways, but just be realistic about how reliable and solid and flexible you want the system to be. Not to ruin it, but if you think you'll get a fully automated house with $500 and a month worth of code writing - it just won't happen.

 

[electron]

Some of these responses are probably overwhelming, or might sound negative, but they are correct. However, this is why we are here, we'll help you figure things out, no matter how many questions you might have.

While a good setup will cost money, you can start 'small' by just investing in a few modules (that's how most of us start), and see how you like a certain technology, there is no need to buy it all at once. Also monitor the classifieds forums here, there are some good deals to be found on a regular basis.

 

[dzirkelb]

Thanks for all of your help and patience guys!!! I just ordered the above items (two of the switches), and I will be playing around with them this weekend

I will get the software listed when I get the items in the mail.

Ok, I don't mean this in a mean way, but you have NO idea what you are doing. You need to take a step back and spend a few more weeks (at minimum) reading forums like this one.

1. Figure out what software you want to use. Read the forums of the different software packages in depth. They all have pluses and minuses, but most are not "easy". Most are very powerful and will require a learning curve. Why play with and learn something that you don't ultimately intend to use. That will just tend to confuse and distract you. Make a list of goals for your home automation to achieve, then look for the software that will let you acheive those goals. once you narrow it down to those few, download the trials and see which you like best.

2. I think you are confused regarding protocals, etc. There is no one protocol that will allow you to do everything. Ie, switch off a light and support a wireless microphone. you will need to use multiple technologies like UPB or Z-wave for lighting control, possibly bluetooth for your wireless mic, and your home automation software package will be the thing doing the "listening" and "speaking" and telling the lights and appliances what to do.

3. with regard to interfaces, there is usually only one interface per protocol. For instance, if you decide to go UPB there will be one device that you will connect to your computer that will listen to the "talk" on your powerline from all the switches. This will also be the device that will issue the commands from the computer to turn on or off the lights.

A typical synario may go like this. You would pic up a microphone connected to your computer via bluetooth (or hardwired back to your sound card, or several other methods) and tell your home automation server to start "party mode". Previously you would have defined "party mode" in your HA software as Turning on lights 1, 3, and 5 to 50 percent, setting the a/c to 68° , closing the blinds and turning on your stereo. So now, your system sends commands out via the UPB module we talked about earlier to turn on lights 1, 3, and 5 to 50% percent (depending on the tech you choose and the switches you install, it will then listen for a confirmation that the switches did do what it told them to do). Your system also knows you have an Insteon thermostat so it uses the Insteon PLM that you have previously istalled and tells the thermostat to turn on the a/c and set the temp to 68°. The motorized blinds are connected to a UPB dry contact relay module so the computer tells that to do its thing. Then the computer sends ir commands to your stereo system via the whole house IR system you have installed. Lastly the system tells you via the audio speakers that you hve throughout your house connected to the computers sound card that it has done what you asked.

That's one simple scene and we used several different technologies. We could have used fewer or more, depending on your house, budget ,etc. My point is, to do the things you will want you are going to have to get alot more familiar with several technologies, so I suggest slowing down a little and reading alot more. If you want to see a light go on and off go flip the switch on the wall that's all you are going to be able to accomplish this weekend anyhow.

I hope I didn't offend. We were all noobs once. There is A LOT to take in and it can be as simple or as difficult as you want it to be, but it all takes new knowledge. Have fun and don't get frustrated.


Nick

Nick, that is pretty much exactly what I have learned yesterday through, well, just you guys telling me. I pretty much researched all day, and my problem was I had a pre-conceived idea that the technology worked through IP, and that is what really, really through me off...a little research would have fixed that.

In learning the technologies, I do understand now that you can have UPB and Z-Wave in the same setup. If I would want to use them both in one action / macro, then I would need a software that can understand both...I will look into this and I beleive a few have already been mentioned.

I definately get the idea that different technologies will be used throughout this process...especially for the ultimate goal of speech automation (which is the very last thing I will do and will be expensive I think). And, I do understand the price involved. I wanted to start out with around 200 dollars for testing. Once I get they physical product in my hand, I'll be able to brainstorm a lot more, adn then do a plan of attack, one room at a time, and one situation at a time in that room.

My initial goal is to set up a Lighting Mode in my basement. This will dim the lights above, and turn on some rope lighting I will eventually get. For now, I will simply tell the program to do so through my bluetooth keyboard / mouse on my computer. I will expand on that later however I think will be best. And, who knows, I might even be able to incorporate it into my logitech harmony remote, but not sure...i'll have to do some research.

 

[dzirkelb]

K, I am buying this unless anyone objects in the next 10 minutes!!!

http://www.discounthomeautomation.com/Simp...vsfp=SSAUMCDB9W

http://www.discounthomeautomation.com/Simp...hite-SSAUSR140W

The second device is a slave switch and will not work without a master switch.

thanks for the heads up. Now that I have already purchased the slaves, can someone show me a link or explain quick what the difference is between a slave and, I'm assuming, a Master? How do they work together?

What will I need to purchase to control these devices, and, what will I need to purchase for a general dimmer switch to put on my wall?

 

[dzirkelb]

Oh, I will not be doing any programming either, at least at first...maybe a year or two down the road

 

[mustangcoupe]

here is a basic no frills "master" switch which is you basic dimmer to put on the wall....as you put it from the same vendor as you linked to before,

http://www.discounthomeautomation.com/Ultr...hite-SSAUS1140W
and the same switch at automatedoutlet.com

http://www.automatedoutlet.com/Browse-Prod...?search=US1140W

which may be a bit more expensive but they have great support and can get you started over the phone. point them to this thread and Brandon or Martin can get you pointed in the right direction with starter hardware. (some times asking question on the phone gets things answered faster and may spur other questions)

A slave switch wires to a master switch to create a three way light circuit without the full expense of the master switch at each location. wires must be run between them for this to work, and is not a powerline type of thing. just think of the slave switch as a dumb switch that cant do anything on it's own.

 

[dzirkelb]

Ok, thanks for the info. I understand what you are saying in regards to the wiring...but I have a question. If you have a light that has two different switches where you can turn it on and off, would it then be ok to hook up a master on one and the slave on the other? Or, generally, slave is something you have to wire yourself? if so, hello return (if they accept returns)

 

[mustangcoupe]

yes many people do that exact thing. I didnt have the need for it so I went with a mix of US11-30 (older uinits) US11-40, us2-40 and us22-40 switches. with the us2-40 they are more expensive but you can choose your own faceplate and have scene buttons that will set the light levels of other master switches once programmed in upstart correctly. ( for example I have a button in my MBR that sets goodnight mode and turns all lights off and dimms my MBR light over a period of time so I can get into bed)

 

[mustangcoupe]

and just for clearification the PIM (computer interface) you purchased is still needed to program your switches or to control them from the computer. there has been some people statign they have had problems with the USB versions but I use serial (rs-232) and have no problem

 

[AutomatedOutlet]

here is a basic no frills "master" switch which is you basic dimmer to put on the wall....as you put it from the same vendor as you linked to before,

http://www.discounthomeautomation.com/Ultr...hite-SSAUS1140W
and the same switch at automatedoutlet.com

http://www.automatedoutlet.com/Browse-Prod...?search=US1140W

which may be a bit more expensive but they have great support and can get you started over the phone. point them to this thread and Brandon or Martin can get you pointed in the right direction with starter hardware. (some times asking question on the phone gets things answered faster and may spur other questions)

A slave switch wires to a master switch to create a three way light circuit without the full expense of the master switch at each location. wires must be run between them for this to work, and is not a powerline type of thing. just think of the slave switch as a dumb switch that cant do anything on it's own.

We will always price match too!

 

[ano]

K, I am buying this unless anyone objects in the next 10 minutes!!!

http://www.discounthomeautomation.com/Simp...vsfp=SSAUMCDB9W

http://www.discounthomeautomation.com/Simp...hite-SSAUSR140W

And always make sure they have a liberal return policy.

As mustangcoupe said, the serial version is probably more reliable, but still, USB will work.

On the "slave" if you do have two switches controlling one light, you can use a "slave" and a "master" but there is another way, and in my experience a better way. Instead of using a slave and master use two masters. The reason, as you will likely discover, is that slave switches are built and act cheaply, and their LEDs don't look like the LEDs on master switches.

So how do two master switches control one light? UPB has this concept of links whereby switches can control virtual links, and any switch can respond to any link. This basically means that just about any switch in your house can control any other switch. Its very powerful, and takes some practice before you realize just how powerful that can be. In fact, you can use a UPB switch network without any controller because switches can control switches.

 

[dzirkelb]

That's pretty cool info to know

On a side note, if I have a light that has two switches to it, do I have to get a master and slave or master and master, or, can I just get one master, and leave the other switch its regular old self? I have some switches that, basically, never get used, where its counterpart is always used.

 

[mustangcoupe]

On a side note, if I have a light that has two switches to it, do I have to get a master and slave or master and master, or, can I just get one master, and leave the other switch its regular old self? I have some switches that, basically, never get used, where its counterpart is always used.

No regular old switches will not work for this. this is where people have used the slaves to save money (in locations never used but you still want it there)

 

[dzirkelb]

Cool...good to know. So, they weren't a waste of money for me to buy them, i can use them / will actually need to use them