General questions on new home automation setup

[ano]

If you take X-10, for example, X-10 communicates over a powerline, but it can't communicate to a PC directly, you need an interface that connects to a serial port or USB. (In the home automation world, most actually use serial as opposed to USB.) If your into programming, you could build a program that communicates with these devices and control the light from your programming, but I wish you luck. Both Charmed Quark and HomeSeer are full-time projects for one or more developers for many ideas, so creating one of these from scratch would be about the same as you creating Microsoft Word from scratch, sure it could be done, but is it really worth it?

Both HomeSeer and Charmed Quark run from several hundred dollars to over a thousand depending on options. There are some open source programs out there, and some very inexpensive ones, but you get what you pay for. If you got LOTS of free time and not much money, they are the way to go, but if you are like many people with a job and other responsibilities, the cost of these programs are well worth the time they save you.

 

[dzirkelb]

If you take X-10, for example, X-10 communicates over a powerline, but it can't communicate to a PC directly, you need an interface that connects to a serial port or USB. (In the home automation world, most actually use serial as opposed to USB.) If your into programming, you could build a program that communicates with these devices and control the light from your programming, but I wish you luck. Both Charmed Quark and HomeSeer are full-time projects for one or more developers for many ideas, so creating one of these from scratch would be about the same as you creating Microsoft Word from scratch, sure it could be done, but is it really worth it?

Both HomeSeer and Charmed Quark run from several hundred dollars to over a thousand depending on options. There are some open source programs out there, and some very inexpensive ones, but you get what you pay for. If you got LOTS of free time and not much money, they are the way to go, but if you are like many people with a job and other responsibilities, the cost of these programs are well worth the time they save you.

Ok, so I think I have an uderstanding of how the technology works, I am going to re-type it in my words so it works with my brain Please correct me where I am wrong.

I am going to use Z-Wave technology and the example of a Power Outlet, as that seems to be one of the easier ones.

I would plug in the Z-Wave item into the power outlet, or, replace the outlet itself with a Z-Wave compatable one.
Then, for each item, there is a receiver of a sort.
That receiver needs to then, in a sense, be converted to a program in which I can control how it works and what triggers it.

So, I plug in z-wave outlet, plug in receiver to a device, then program on cpu controls the outlet. How does the receiver plug into the interface? Via usb or some other sort of technology?

Is that correct? If so, is getting some sort of interface a necessity for the program to send commands, or is the interface necessary due to lack of physical inputs on the computer? If it is due to physical lack of inputs on the computer, then couldn't I get a USB hub and connect many more items to it?

 

[RAM]

What do you mean i will need a usb or serial adapter that bridges the PC to the lighting network? What would the computer hook up to via usb or serial? I was under the assumption (probably incorrectly), that when using a PC, it sort of scans the network for changes. Meaning, when I install a new wireless device, be it a microphone, light switch, or power outlet, it sort of detects that device. I am guessing it would assign an IP address to that device also, but I may be wrong. Then, it talks to that device through IP.

I may be way off on this, but is that how it would work? If so, what would I need a serial / usb for and what would it connect to from the computer? Please excuse my ignorance

Most, if not all, of the basic X-10 stuff you'll find at X10.com is strictly one way communications. You send these odules or switches commands across your home wiring and it turns a lamp/light/appliance on or off. They do not notify your controller that they have turned on or off if you manually turn them on/off at the device. There are more expensive versions of these modules and switches (usually referred to as 2-way) available that do send notification that they have been turned on/off manually.

If you are going to have a computer control it you will need a serial or USB controller to send out these commands to the modules or switches. The simplest/cheapest version (serial) is the CM-11A controller. You can also use hand held remotes to send signals to plug in the wall receivers that will send commands to the same modules or switches.

The links you listed for the individual items are a good start. You can find better deals by buying one of X10.com's 'packs'. There's one at http://www.x10.com/automation/rcagiftpack_burst2_cat.html that gives you and number of modules and switches for a decent price. You'd still need a receiver (the TM751 you listed or the RR501) and a controller (the serial-CM11A or USB-CM15A)

I have recently had good service and found decent prices at http://www.thex10shop.com. (NOTE: I am not affiliated with them at all.)

Good luck on your exploration of the world of home automation.

 

[dzirkelb]

What do you mean i will need a usb or serial adapter that bridges the PC to the lighting network? What would the computer hook up to via usb or serial? I was under the assumption (probably incorrectly), that when using a PC, it sort of scans the network for changes. Meaning, when I install a new wireless device, be it a microphone, light switch, or power outlet, it sort of detects that device. I am guessing it would assign an IP address to that device also, but I may be wrong. Then, it talks to that device through IP.

I may be way off on this, but is that how it would work? If so, what would I need a serial / usb for and what would it connect to from the computer? Please excuse my ignorance

Most, if not all, of the basic X-10 stuff you'll find at X10.com is strictly one way communications. You send these odules or switches commands across your home wiring and it turns a lamp/light/appliance on or off. They do not notify your controller that they have turned on or off if you manually turn them on/off at the device. There are more expensive versions of these modules and switches (usually referred to as 2-way) available that do send notification that they have been turned on/off manually.

If you are going to have a computer control it you will need a serial or USB controller to send out these commands to the modules or switches. The simplest/cheapest version (serial) is the CM-11A controller. You can also use hand held remotes to send signals to plug in the wall receivers that will send commands to the same modules or switches.

The links you listed for the individual items are a good start. You can find better deals by buying one of X10.com's 'packs'. There's one at http://www.x10.com/automation/rcagiftpack_burst2_cat.html that gives you and number of modules and switches for a decent price. You'd still need a receiver (the TM751 you listed or the RR501) and a controller (the serial-CM11A or USB-CM15A)

I have recently had good service and found decent prices at http://www.thex10shop.com. (NOTE: I am not affiliated with them at all.)

Good luck on your exploration of the world of home automation.

I think I am confusing myself more...lets make this simpler on my mind. Can someone give me links to what I need to buy to start for testing? Cheapest possible as I probably wont' use what I buy in teh long run and upgrade to z-wave or something.

All I have is the computer.

Any sort of checklist would be appreciated. Then, once I see all that is required, then I can do some research on what to buy for each piece for the long run, or, once it is "live".

 

[pete_c]

The roots of the interfaces to powerline technology are are in basic serial to PC connectivity. Today much of old and new powerline technology evolved from a device (x-10) that you connect to your outlets that would recieve a basic command and just enable a switch. The means of communication to these devices were simple 1 way conversations with primitive checks and balances.

This method has changed since the early days of powerline technology with the ability to install a powerline device which is more intelligent allowing these powerline switches to communicate to controllers and themselves sending and recieving commands.

Powerline technology evolved into the networking of these devices. (a major milestone). The methodologies of the networking of powerline technologies has spanned to numerous techniques each based on various companies doing a lot of R&D each looking to achieve the best in powerline communications.

A couple of applications have been suggested. Try them. Look at the GUI's etc. Look at a user's setup via the internet...

Checklist -

- reading and asking questions on this forum, HS and CQ is a good start.
- read about powerline technology and what methodologies are currently being used
- go slow and step by step in deciding what you will feel comfortable with automating first. You mentioned lighting. Just work on that for now.

 

[dzirkelb]

The roots of the interfaces to powerline technology are are in basic serial to PC connectivity. Today much of old and new powerline technology evolved from a device (x-10) that you connect to your outlets that would recieve a basic command and just enable a switch. The means of communication to these devices were simple 1 way conversations with primitive checks and balances.

This method has changed since the early days of powerline technology with the ability to install a powerline device which is more intelligent allowing these powerline switches to communicate to controllers and themselves sending and recieving commands.

Powerline technology evolved into the networking of these devices. (a major milestone). The methodologies of the networking of powerline technologies has spanned to numerous techniques each based on various companies doing a lot of R&D each looking to achieve the best in powerline communications.

A couple of applications have been suggested. Try them. Look at the GUI's etc. Look at a user's setup via the internet...

Checklist -

- reading and asking questions on this forum, HS and CQ is a good start.
- read about powerline technology and what methodologies are currently being used
- go slow and step by step in deciding what you will feel comfortable with automating first. You mentioned lighting. Just work on that for now.

I definately agree on the going slow part. I plan on starting with the very basic, turning on and off a light via computer. To complete this task, can someone give a list of everything I will need, just to complete this task? Once I get that information, I will better be able to figure out how it all works together. Can someone provide links to the cheapest ones out there they know of also?

 

[dzirkelb]

Ok, did a little bit of shopping, and I am finding X-10 to be very cheap compared to the others. So, for my testing, i will start with that.

I am going to buy http://www.thex10shop.com/product/0/X10-X-...oft_975676.html as my interface.
http://www.thex10shop.com/product/63656/X1...tch_733203.html as a controller

Are those items compatable?

I would like to add a motion sensor and microphone to this list...are there any x10 motion sensors / mic's that will work with this current setup? or, should I change my setup to accomodate the motion sensor / mic? Those will definately be added to my HA.

 

[Rupp]

What software are you going to use? HomeSeer will work with a CM11A and the CM15A. The light switch you listed will work as well. Just be aware of some of the pit falls of X10, the biggest of which is noise on the powerline and your will more than likely need a coupler/repeater.

 

[dzirkelb]

This purchase is going to be strickly for testing, so whatever software I can find that is free is what I will use. I may be incorrect, but the link:

http://www.thex10shop.com/product/0/X10-X-...oft_975676.html

makes it sound like it comes with some sort of software for me to play around with, is that correct?

As far as noise, would the age of the house come into play? The house is fairly new, built in 03. Or, is noise just something you have to live with if you choose x10? What does noise do exactly to the devices? Make them simply not work at times?

 

[pete_c]

Here is a link relating to powerline noise and X-10.

X-10 Noise

You'll know right away if X-10 will work (noisy lines) for you or not with the lights/circuits you decide to use. (installing just a few test switches versus 20-30)

 

[dzirkelb]

I'm just going to bite the bullet and buy the items listed above and go from there. I am afraid I will not be able to incorporate wireless technology with the x10 though, aka, say a command from upstairs via wireless microphone and then have some sound come out of a wireless speaker upstairs, or have a light come in from a wireless motion sensor, but I'll learn that as I go.

 

[ano]

Ok, did a little bit of shopping, and I am finding X-10 to be very cheap compared to the others. So, for my testing, i will start with that.

I am going to buy http://www.thex10shop.com/product/0/X10-X-...oft_975676.html as my interface.
http://www.thex10shop.com/product/63656/X1...tch_733203.html as a controller

Are those items compatable?

I would like to add a motion sensor and microphone to this list...are there any x10 motion sensors / mic's that will work with this current setup? or, should I change my setup to accomodate the motion sensor / mic? Those will definately be added to my HA.

Starting with X-10 to get your feet wet is fine, but remember X-10 is a very old standard. X-10 is usually not 100% reliable, and many items in your house block X-10 signals. Also, X-10 is generally one-way meaning you can control a light, but if you manually control the light the computer will never know you changed it. UPB is a MUCH better powerline technology that is two-way. Simply Automated makes some good UPB switches Simply Automated as does HAI HAI

Play with X-10 if you like, but I would never recommend X-10 be used at this time. You'r better off spending your money on some UPB switches you can really use. If the cost of automating your home is over your budget, its best to realize that early on.

If you look around, Simply Automated used to sell a starter kit with a computer interface, coupler, and some switches for around $200. Its a good deal if you can still find it. By the way, you can control and program UPB with a free program that you can download from Simply Automated called UPStart. You can play with that program even if you don't use UPB. It can simulate your switches.

 

[ano]

I'm just going to bite the bullet and buy the items listed above and go from there. I am afraid I will not be able to incorporate wireless technology with the x10 though, aka, say a command from upstairs via wireless microphone and then have some sound come out of a wireless speaker upstairs, or have a light come in from a wireless motion sensor, but I'll learn that as I go.

That's step #23 $3000 from now. You are on step #1.

 

[dzirkelb]

Ok, ok, I'll start with UDP...that sounds like it will enable 2way talking, and radio waves for my wireless mic's and stuff like that. Now, unfortunately, I am back to squre one. I need everything that will enable me to control ONE lightswitch for my starting...i want it to be able to dim and controlable by my computer. Now, where the heck do I go to get everything necessary and what are the essential pieces necessary to get this started?

 

[kd5crs]

I definately agree on the going slow part. I plan on starting with the very basic, turning on and off a light via computer. To complete this task, can someone give a list of everything I will need, just to complete this task? Once I get that information, I will better be able to figure out how it all works together. Can someone provide links to the cheapest ones out there they know of also?

If I can arrive in time to yell "Stop the presses!", I think you are not going about this in the most efficient way. If you have future plans to use Z-wave or UPB, why waste money on X10 parts you will not ever use again? Why not buy parts that will complement your future use?

I suggest:

1. Ebay for one of these: IR-controlled wall switch
2. Buy a USB-UIRT

That will give you:
1. Computer control over the light (Computer -> USB-UIRT -> IR controlled wall switch)
2. Computer control over all your AV components! (Computer -> USB-UIRT -> TV, DVD, etc.)
3. It will also give you a powerful basic system to evaluate your choice of software. If you only have the ability to turn on and off a light, all the software is pretty much equal. It is as the complexity grows that you can see the benefits and disadvantages.

Best of all, your USB-UIRT will probably be part of your system for a long time! I have the Mac equivalent (an IRTrans), and it gets used for everything. Just think about how many things you can get IR controlled, AV, lights, fans, computers, window blinds... Until the day everything has a serial port (or a built in Xbee), IR rocks.

Then, once you know what you want and have some experience, pull the trigger on your HA technology of choice.

My $0.02.

Brian