Getting started ELK and HAI
- Thread starter rsw686
- Start date
128 inputs is actually not that many for a house, if you want contacts in every door and motion sensors in every room. The contacts are under a buck each, and besides a few high-end motion sensors for security, the rest could be bought for less than $20. The lighting of course is a different story.
Price is around $150 different between the systems. I like the choies for the Elk keypads, the LED off capability, function buttons, and the interface. Also the capability to run Insteon is nice if I wanted to go that route. With the modules a hardware failure means I'm only out the cost of the module that failed.
HAI will be a cleaner install without all the extra modules, but the single board is costly. HAI also seems to have better UPB, Z-Wave, and Zigbee intergration. I can't find a definite answer on if ZWave switches will report their status to the HAI controller. With Elk I've read this is not possible. The downsides to HAI are that it can't send email notifications from the controller and the console keypad ready / arm LED can not be turned off. I'm not sure how I can mount the console by my front door as it will be visible.
(1) HAI 20A00-2 - Omni Pro II Controller in Enclosure
(1) ELK-TRG2440 - Resettable 24VAC-40VA Power Supply
(2) HAI 33A00-4 - LCD Console for HAI Omni Controllers w/ Speaker/MIC
(1) HAI 1105W - PC Access Programming Software - Installer Version
(2) HAI RC2000WH - Omnistat2 Single Stage/Multi-Stage - White
(1) HAI 10A07-1 - 4 Relay Module
(1) HAI 36A00-1 - HLC Powerline Interface Module (PIM) and Cable for Omni Controllers
(1) HAI 45A00-1 - 64-Zone Wireless Receiver
$2,100
With the HAI system should I be getting the structed panel mount version of the board? It looks like this would fit into the ELK-SWB14 enclosure. Any experience with the Zigbee Omnistat2? I'm debating going that route as it is going to require cutting holes in the drywall to run the extra cable needed to the thermostat.
(1) ELK-M1GSYS3 - ELKM1 Gold Security and Automation Kit with No Keypad
(1) ELK-M1XEP - elk Ethernet Port Interface
(2) ELK-M1KP2 - ELK LCD Keypad
(1) ELK-M1DBHR - Data Bus Hub Retrofit
(2) ELK-M1XSP - M1 ELK Serial Expander, Lighting/Thermostat Interface
(2) HAI RC2000WH - Omnistat2 Single Stage/Multi-Stage - White
(1) ELKM1PCSPIM - PulseWorx UPB Powerline Interface Module (PIM) for ELK M1 Controller
(1) ELK-M1XRF2H - ELK Wireless Receiver For Use With Honeywell Sensors
$1,950
HAI will be a cleaner install without all the extra modules, but the single board is costly. HAI also seems to have better UPB, Z-Wave, and Zigbee intergration. I can't find a definite answer on if ZWave switches will report their status to the HAI controller. With Elk I've read this is not possible. The downsides to HAI are that it can't send email notifications from the controller and the console keypad ready / arm LED can not be turned off. I'm not sure how I can mount the console by my front door as it will be visible.
(1) HAI 20A00-2 - Omni Pro II Controller in Enclosure
(1) ELK-TRG2440 - Resettable 24VAC-40VA Power Supply
(2) HAI 33A00-4 - LCD Console for HAI Omni Controllers w/ Speaker/MIC
(1) HAI 1105W - PC Access Programming Software - Installer Version
(2) HAI RC2000WH - Omnistat2 Single Stage/Multi-Stage - White
(1) HAI 10A07-1 - 4 Relay Module
(1) HAI 36A00-1 - HLC Powerline Interface Module (PIM) and Cable for Omni Controllers
(1) HAI 45A00-1 - 64-Zone Wireless Receiver
$2,100
With the HAI system should I be getting the structed panel mount version of the board? It looks like this would fit into the ELK-SWB14 enclosure. Any experience with the Zigbee Omnistat2? I'm debating going that route as it is going to require cutting holes in the drywall to run the extra cable needed to the thermostat.
(1) ELK-M1GSYS3 - ELKM1 Gold Security and Automation Kit with No Keypad
(1) ELK-M1XEP - elk Ethernet Port Interface
(2) ELK-M1KP2 - ELK LCD Keypad
(1) ELK-M1DBHR - Data Bus Hub Retrofit
(2) ELK-M1XSP - M1 ELK Serial Expander, Lighting/Thermostat Interface
(2) HAI RC2000WH - Omnistat2 Single Stage/Multi-Stage - White
(1) ELKM1PCSPIM - PulseWorx UPB Powerline Interface Module (PIM) for ELK M1 Controller
(1) ELK-M1XRF2H - ELK Wireless Receiver For Use With Honeywell Sensors
$1,950
Hm, not sure why you can't mount a keypad by your door because it has an LED? I think its a great deterant if someone looks in and sees the alarm on. If you want a keypad that you can mount outside, HAI has one of those as well.. http://www.homeauto.com/Products/ConsolesTouchscreens/Outdoorkeypad.asp
Do you need Dealer PC Access? Not really but its helpful. The dealer version lets you access some setup info where the "user" version doesn't. You can also set these settings at any panel, its just easier with PC Access. Most of the items are things you would just set once and never touch again.
You can download many users guides here:
http://www.homeauto.com/Support/Downloads/downloads.asp
HAI isn't great about updating this info, but most of it should be valid.
Do you need Dealer PC Access? Not really but its helpful. The dealer version lets you access some setup info where the "user" version doesn't. You can also set these settings at any panel, its just easier with PC Access. Most of the items are things you would just set once and never touch again.
You can download many users guides here:
http://www.homeauto.com/Support/Downloads/downloads.asp
HAI isn't great about updating this info, but most of it should be valid.
One other question reguarding UPB vs Insteon. I've read Insteon doesn't do collision detection so hitting two switches at once will result in one or both not working. How long of a delay between flipping siwtches is needed for them both to work? Is 1/2 second enough? Does Insteon have this same problem as well with the collision?
KenN
Member
I've never had this problem. I have a few places with Insteon dimmers installed side-by-side in a gang box and often palm both switches on or off at the same time. I've never observed a single failure to operate. I do use dual band (powerline and RF) devices in all locations though.
tmbrown97
Senior Member
I'm guessing you meant UPB there? If so, that's true - but you really only need about 1/3rd of a second between the two. Or another option I've used quite a bit is setting it so double-tapping either will turn off the whole room - great for rooms like my office where it'll turn off the desk light, ceiling light, and the two bathroom lights; or in the master bedroom I have a scene controller on the way out that'll turn off everything (about 7 switches worth of lights).
tmbrown97
Senior Member
It's a great deterrent when the house is armed - but it's a weak point when it's not - it lets would-be intruders know if you've armed the house for the evening or forgotten to arm it while running to the store. My personal opinion is that it's a really bad idea to have arm status visible to the exterior. For that reason, all my keypads are located near each exit on exterior walls where it'd be really hard to see the arm status via any windows.
Dean Roddey
Senior Member
You could always mount it just above a magazine rack full of Gun and Ammo issues or something like that.
Yes I did mean UPB. Insteon looks to have the ability to repeat a command if an ack is not received. 1/3 second doesn't seem bad. It sounds like if you flipped the switches one after the other there is no issue.
The downside with HAI is once you use all on board, you're just about limited, not to mention where your serials need to be tied to. HAI is also very "tiered" in their panels. Use all 24 inputs on this board...well now you're buying a new OPII and peripherals. At least with Elk, it's either an EZ8 or an M1. Most people take the plunge for the M1 over an EZ8, but from an installation standpoint, it's pretty nice to have essentially a single platform be able to do 90% of what the flagship does.
HAI has Elk beat on a couple of facets and abilities, but you need to consider if you want to deal with primarily HAI modules (akin to Apple) or many varied manufacturers and hardware with an Elk. They're surprisingly equivalent in abilities and cost once you load them up, with a very slight edge to the HAI for only a couple of items.
Doesn't Elk have the same issue? It supports up to 7 serial ports, while HAI supports 6. If you have Omnistat then it will tie up the extra serial port on Elk, which will bring the total number on par with HAI, as HAI uses a zone to communicate with omnistats (and reportedly as many as 176). For each 4 thermostats Elk will need to use another serial port.
I was looking in the HAI and Elk manuals for configuring the security zone types. The HAI has less options in this area compared to Elk and even my Ademco Vista panel. I don't even see the option for interior delay or interior night delay. I use this setting for the basement motion. At night I shouldn't be going down there, but if I forgot I can disarm without the alarm going off. It looks like the only HAI option is night interior which is an instant alarm.