Giving Up On Insteon

[MikeB]

UPB isn't perfect. Perhaps the most annoying thing is there is a noticible delay between turning a switch on (by tapping the top) and when the light actually comes on.

Hey -

I'm just starting to get into home automation, and the first thing I want to start working with is lighting control.

I have about 5 X10 devices in my house right now, but I wanted to investigate all the different technologies before I spend serious cash on it.

The 2 I'm considering right now are Insteon and UPB. This thread scares me away from Insteon a bit.

How big of a delay is there when turning on a light? That's one of the points I liked about Insteon - they say the delay is much shorter than x10. Is UPB quicker than x10, or about the same?

Lastly, what advantages will I see if I move from x10 to UPB if x10 has been reliable to me so far (since I purchase a dryer outlet amplifier/bridge, x10 has been like 99% reliable).? It seems like you can find some good quality x10 switches (Switchlink?). What are the disadvantages right now of just going all x10?


Thanks in advance!

 

[upstatemike]

The 2 I'm considering right now are Insteon and UPB. This thread scares me away from Insteon a bit.

How big of a delay is there when turning on a light? That's one of the points I liked about Insteon - they say the delay is much shorter than x10. Is UPB quicker than x10, or about the same?

Lastly, what advantages will I see if I move from x10 to UPB if x10 has been reliable to me so far (since I purchase a dryer outlet amplifier/bridge, x10 has been like 99% reliable).? It seems like you can find some good quality x10 switches (Switchlink?). What are the disadvantages right now of just going all x10?


Thanks in advance!

Unfortunately there is no easy answer because all of the competing new protocols are designed to be better than X-10. All of the issues people have are related the the way the new products are implemented and marketed rather than because of actual problems with the underlying technologies. My problem turned out to be a firmware issue. With Z-Wave there was a decision not to implement reporting of local control on low-end switches. UPB has the delay issue and a large bulky form factor.

Since there is no one answer that everyone agrees on, The best strategy is to get a few sample switches and try them for yourself. Whichever type disappoints you the least is the one to go with.

 

[KenM]

Hi Mike B,

I cannot comment on UPB, I understand that the people using it have few complaints.

I have used Insteon for five months before I gave it up. My problems were with the hardware/firmware part and most of my devices were purchaced in November of 2005. Insteon is s-l-o-w-l-y working out the problems, I still have hopes for that Protocol. When I was testing with the SH SDK and a USB controller, I could send out a command and get back an ACK in about 800 milliseconds. The actual load/light would appear to switch on in about that same time.

The Insteon appliance switching module is what finally made me give it up all together. I killed five of those on what I thought were loads within the limits; two 20w flourescent lights on a ballast (my aquarium light) would consistently kill the modules. A 60w portable fan killed two, and a 600 watt heater killed one. They have trimmed the specifications to more closely reflect what these things will handle. My Z-Wave appliance modules handle the fan and aquarium lights fine. I havn't had any need to try switching the electric heater yet.

For just light dimmer/on/off the Insteon switches work well. Be aware, the switches they are currently selling do not meet their own spec for extended messaging. That is part of the reason why programmers are getting ulcers trying to make the switches do everything that they are supposed to do. They will very reliably switch lights on and off. "Future" firmware revs will enable all of the advertised features. (I believe in the Easter Bunny too).

If you like X10, and it works for you, I would not be in a big rush to switch.

Ken

 

[Digger]

I can swear that there is a thread where I said I would hold off buying more INsteon until they got the bugs out of the firmware since they were not upgradable and a guy from Smarthome said that there was no need for firmware changes.

I cant count anymore how many times a light does not come on when switched remotely by another Insteon Switch (3 way etc) or by my M1. I thought I had that beat for a while but it is happening again. In addition the status of the lights is a crapshoot unless the M1 turns them on and off. If you do it manually at the device you dont know the status.

I am also waiting for over a month for an Appliance module. I am going on vacation soon and could have used it (not a life or death but I ordered plenty in advance).

 

[TCassio]

First, let me state I am no champion of Smarthome or Insteon. My experience with SH customer service has been marginal. As far as the Insteon firmware issues, I agree whats being said here.

I started with automation using X10. I guess I've been blessed with an "electrically clean" home. Meaning that once I place a few x10 filters, and a coupler/repeater, my X10 installation worked 97% of the time. I use Homeseer to control my lights and a couple of remotes and the lights come on when you ask them to.

About 6 months ago I converted about 15 of my X10 devices to Insteon. I have 6 Lamplinc's, 1 Icon relay switch, 10 Icon dimmers, 2 signalincs, and 1 Control linc. I do not use any Keypadlincs. I can say that if I send a command to turn on a device, that divice comes on. It is very reliable. What I don't like is the whole linking process, it is clumsy and difficult to set up and even harder to maintain, especially if you have to reolace a defective switch. Whats missing are more Insteon equipment ie: Insteon remotes and motion sensors. Software to make setting up Insteon devices easier, something like the UPB upstart program.

All in all, I do not regret my purchase of Insteon equipment, I just wish Smarthome would get all the Bulls**t problems fixed.

 

[jeffx]

Insteon has been very reliable for me (lights always turn on and off when they are supposed to).

The only annoying issue I continue to have with the hardware is with several of my lights "flickering" to the beat of powerline signals. When I hear that this has finally been fixed, I will just RMA my affected switches.

Powerhome has shown us that full software support is possible, but I'm still waiting for HAL2000 to get status, linking and groups working.

At $20 to $50 a switch, I can't really complain about the remaining bugs that are being worked out. x10 was just never reliable in my 1950's house and Insteon is 100% reliable for me so far.

 

[RandyKnight]

I've gone back and forth between Insteon and UPB and tested both througout my house. UPB is much more reliable, easier to set up, etc. However, we ultimately decided to go Insteon, for one reason and one reas only. The delay. All family members found it extremely annoying to not have the light come on instantly when we go into a room and hit a light switch. Insteon does this, UPB does not. The bottom line was that "normal" lighting usage was first priority, automation second. So I'll fight through the Insteon issues. If UPB did not have the delay, it would have been a no-brainer, even with the higher cost.

 

[bfisher]

How big of a delay is there when turning on a light? That's one of the points I liked about Insteon - they say the delay is much shorter than x10. Is UPB quicker than x10, or about the same?

I can't compare to X10 - I don't have it to know. The UPB delay is approximately .3 seconds... just long enough to wonder "did I click the switch or not?" And then poof - it comes on.

After using it for a couple days, you hardly notice it anymore. However, for guests (and in-laws), it is a little confusing.

I agree, this is the biggest issue (besides cost) with UPB.

 

[upstatemike]

If UPB did not have the delay, it would have been a no-brainer, even with the higher cost.

I think I asked this before but wasn't there supposed to be an option with UPB devices to disable the double-press feature if you weren't going to use it and wanted faster response instead?

 

[Steve]

Today there is no way to change this. The delay has been brought up alot at least to SAI and I believe they are working to correct this in their next gen switch. Maybe Brad can chime in and give us an update?

 

[ph0n33z]

Upstatemike:

I was browsing for HA videos on youtube.com and videos.google.com and came across this video. not sure if it is the same problems you had, but it is interesting none the less.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCWcVQ329D8

 

[ph0n33z]

Upstatemike:

I was browsing for HA videos on youtube.com and videos.google.com and came across this video. not sure if it is the same problems you had, but it is interesting none the less.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCWcVQ329D8

 

[upstatemike]

Upstatemike:

I was browsing for HA videos on youtube.com and videos.google.com and came across this video. not sure if it is the same problems you had, but it is interesting none the less.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCWcVQ329D8

Yes, that is exactly the same problem. Looks like this person discovered it back in mid-March! I'm surprised it wasn't already widely known by now! I hope the guy who made the video reads Cocoontech so hew will know there is a work around.

 

[upstatemike]

Today there is no way to change this. The delay has been brought up alot at least to SAI and I believe they are working to correct this in their next gen switch. Maybe Brad can chime in and give us an update?

Bummer! If it rains all weekend as predicted, maybe I'll start a "Home Automation Disappointments" thread to capture and summarize all these irritating little issues that seem to be taking forever to get resolved.

 

[Herdfan]

While I am not quite up to Mike's switch count, I am getting closer. At lat count I had 81 Insteon Devices with 950+ links.

My big issue was that I was one of the ealiest adopters of the V2 dimmers. As a result of the known issue where they would just die, I ended up replaceing close to 40 dimmers. Sometimes twice. Had it not been for Power-Home and its linking capabilities, I would probably have given up on Insteon.

Now that I have replaced most of the earlier dimmers and moved the 2.0 and 2.1's that still worked to single gang boxes for easy future replacement, I am quite happy with the protocol.

There are a few nagging issues that I would like to see corrected. I have one relay that needs a firm press, but I have been too lazy to replace it. The fact that the upcoming Houselinc requires a computer on 24/7 is a step backwards given the timer software could download to the PLC.

I would also like to see the IR/RF controls sooner than later, but overall I am pleased. As for UPB/Z-Wave, while they may be better protocols/products/support, they just don't look as nice as the V2 stuff. Since I got the engraved buttons the Insteon stuff looks as good as my neighbors Litetouch system.

So pleased for now.

Edit: Looks like I need to update my sig.