Giving Up On Insteon
- Thread starter upstatemike
- Start date
upstatemike
Senior Member
Because Z-Wave stuff is clunky looking like those old Intermatic air conditioner timers from the 70s.RonX said:
Because Z-wave can have issues with metal electrical boxes.
Because only the HomePro Z-Wave switches instantly report their status (per Homeseer site)
As critical as I am about Insteon I think it has lots of potential. Its a great concept with very poor implementation in my opinion. If SH can get themselves together and devote the resurces to correct the hardware, firmware, customer service issues they could make a lot of money with this product line.
KenM
Active Member
RonX said:
Ron,
Some people seem happy with Insteon. Insteon had/has some issues with device firmware that they are working out. I gave up on them over a month ago so I cannot tell you for sure what version of which module is working and which is junk.
What bothered me the most about Insteon was that they keep on selling these things even if they do not work, and have documented cases of them not working. I have talked with people who have blown out appliance modules many times on the same load. SH kept on sending out new modules as if some sort of majic was going to make them start working. Things like that made me start to wonder what the heck the motiviation was.
I like the Insteon protocol. As I stated earlier, when the hardware/firmware issues are worked out this will be a hard one to beat. At this time, I would not recommend a large investment in Insteon modules. SH honors the warranty, but the time and inconvience of swapping out electrical switches is hard to justify.
A lot of the Z-wave hardware is fairly new, as far as features go. I am only using the wireless remotes for controlling my lights and appliances now. I am happy with that.
Ken
I have an appliancelinc on order for about a month or more and it was supposed to ship yet agan last week accordig to the last email from them. Well I still havent gotten it and I called yesterday and they had no clue in customer service that there was a back order situation.
I think they have a big problem and they are trying to keep it quiet until they can fix it. Cant blame them i guess. Problem is I am leaving for vacation and wanted it before I left.
I think they have a big problem and they are trying to keep it quiet until they can fix it. Cant blame them i guess. Problem is I am leaving for vacation and wanted it before I left.
rocco
Active Member
I have heard this a lot, but have yet to hear from someone that actually had a problem that could be traced to a metal box. I know that it would be hard to determine if the box was really responsible.upstatemike said:
Has anyone had a ZWave problem where the cause was actually the metal box?
upstatemike
Senior Member
Since metal electrical boxes are tied to ground, I kind of doubt that they will boost an rf signal.KenM said:
ChrisWalker
Active Member
upstatemike,upstatemike said:
I think the biggest struggles that have faced Z-Wave to date are lack of availability of information and leadtimes on production.
As far as clunky switches go, I think you are referring to one or two existing product lines. Check these out (which I have heard referred to with words as "georgeous" or "good looking"):
http://www.cooperwiringdevices.com/AspireRF/
http://www.intouchcontrols.com/productline.htm
http://www.leviton.com/vizia/
As far as electrical boxes, I have to agree: lots of people have these and have no troubles with Z-Wave. Yes, metal can degrade wireless signals. But Z-Wave can be quite robust, and can route around these if there are problems.
Finally, none of the products currently on the market instantly report their status. However, quite a few of the 3-way switches (including the ones you mention) do command other devices to turn on/off/etc. and if that information is interpreted in a currently-proprietary way (not advertised as "supported" by the manufacturer), you can use any of them to achieve this effect in simple scenarios.
For true live status, a number of the products coming to market (including some/all from lines mentioned in this message) truly support it.
Chris
As an alternative to Insteon, one would be best to consider UPB. It is rock solid reliable, has lots of different switch types, controls CFLs with no problem, doesn't flicker, switches don't fail, has excellent software to support the install and setup, and it just plain works well!
The price is a little higher than Insteon, but when you consider you don't have to replace the bad switches like you do with Insteon and the WAF factor, the price is well worth avoiding the headaches of Insteon.
The price is a little higher than Insteon, but when you consider you don't have to replace the bad switches like you do with Insteon and the WAF factor, the price is well worth avoiding the headaches of Insteon.
KenM
Active Member
Mike,
A resonate antenna grounded at one end is a resonate antenna. I talked all over the United States with a quarter wave 'coaxial colinear' (a grounded 1/4 wave) antenna and a 14 watt transmitter, years ago. It seems strange but any multiple of the wavelength will work very well as an antenna when the radiator element is grounded at the opposite end from the feed. At the wavelength of Z-Wave I would imagine a 'tuned element' is possible as it is close to the size of the box. I would not bet too much money on it happening. I was trying to make the point that a metal electrical box will not necessarily block a 900 Mhz signal.
Ken
A resonate antenna grounded at one end is a resonate antenna. I talked all over the United States with a quarter wave 'coaxial colinear' (a grounded 1/4 wave) antenna and a 14 watt transmitter, years ago. It seems strange but any multiple of the wavelength will work very well as an antenna when the radiator element is grounded at the opposite end from the feed. At the wavelength of Z-Wave I would imagine a 'tuned element' is possible as it is close to the size of the box. I would not bet too much money on it happening. I was trying to make the point that a metal electrical box will not necessarily block a 900 Mhz signal.
Ken
Steve
Senior Member
In as much as I love UPB as well, I just want to make sure people have a realistic understanding as well. While I mostly agree with your sentiments, UPB can have a very difficult time with CFLs as well. It all depends on the CFL. This is well known and recognized by SAI. It probably has something to do with he quality of electronics in the CFL. I recommend to anybody that is using UPB and wanting to use CFLs that they try a few different brands before making a large purchase in CFLs to insure they work (conduct end to end noise and signal tests with the CFL's in place). And on the subject of switch failure - these are electronic devices and can and do fail. Fortunately they seem to be more stable than Insteon at the moment and they are backed by a 2-5 year warranty by the manufacturers.jimspobox said:
But I agree wholeheartedly that UPB is a very viable alternative to Insteon and Zwave. If you get the HAL branded switches at Frye's brick & mortar, they can be had for $35. There are also various specials, etc that come up that put UPB not very far off from Insteon - and you must compare wattage ratings to be fair. And my understanding is that the Pro devices coming from Zwave with 2 way status will be in the same ballpark if not more expensive than UPB.
But since this is an Insteon thread I also must add that I too believe Insteon has potential and at first I wanted to use it. It depends on your timing and willingness to be inconvenienced as an early adopter. If you need something reliable and well supported right now then Insteon may not be the best choice but give it time and it may certainly be.
upstatemike
Senior Member
I see what you are saying. I wasn't picturing the box as being grounded at one end like a resonate antenna but rather as acting more like a Faraday Cage.KenM said:
upstatemike
Senior Member
OK. I completely concede that these switches look great. If they had been available last year when I was converting everything (and assuming the prices aren't crazy "UPB High") then I would probably be using Z-wave today!ChrisWalker said:
johnnynine
Active Member
I have a feeling I'll be in sticker shock when these come out.ChrisWalker said:
My major issue with Insteon right now is that the switches ignore the 1st toggle press if you do it too quickly... which for my wife and I is apparently a lot. It drives us crazy. Smarthome claims it is to prevent false on/offs. Well it prevents valid on/off all the time for us.
So at this point I am looking for an alternative as Smarthome hasn't been able to give me any conclusive indication on whether or not they are going to fix it.
My biggest concern with z-wave is that from my understanding most of them (and I don't really know for sure which) won't send a message out when the local switch manually changes state. So you must poll them in order to catch the state change in HA software. Any I also worry that the ones which will send a state change notification will be pricey.
