HA/security combination

[Dean Roddey]

That's a pretty pathological situation basically, and it would be both rare and could happen to any sort of controller. The odds of any controller sending out random junk that would be actually interpreted as valid command data is indicative of either a VERY badly designed control protocol, or an enormously unlikely coincidence.
 
Of course a LOGIC bug could cause that, but any type of controller is equally subject to logic bugs in device interfaces, since it's software either way in that case.

 

[Del91574]

As I said, it's just an example of what happened where the system was able to dump data based off a system corruption. I can't explain how or why, just a forensic view after the fact of the smoking gun.
 
In my experience, dealing with large systems, both hardware and software/PC based server/client setups, even running SSD's, mirrors, backups, etc. you are still bound to the OS and still can have data issues, corruption, what have you. There's a case for each system and where the logical tie in should be, but there's always something that should be considered. Even the best PC/server is going to have hiccups, same as some hardware controllers, but in my experience, the hardware tends to have less to contend with over time.

 

[Linus]

Wow.
This thread took off. Thank you all for contributing. and a special thank you to the pros. I realize that this is  sort of your job, but not all companies are willing to contribute to a customer diy forum and it is really appreciated.

 

[tmbrown97]

The PC vs. hardware is always quite the topic - almost as much so as the age old OS wars.  The reality is that someone who really knows what they're doing can build a home automation PC that's nearly bulletproof that'll run for a decade without intervention.  Somewhere in my piles of stuff I had a Fit2PC that I had planned to use but never got around to it - but one of those tiny PC's with a good power supply and an SSD will last you pretty well if you turn off all the updates, turn on a firewall, and let it do its job and nothing else.  Maybe even schedule an automatic reboot once in a while if the software you're running has any memory leaks - but I'd prefer not to.
 
That said, I'm in the camp of liking everything being integrated with the M1.  My reason:  Eventually I think I'd like to go the software route, and even bought a software package that does a little bit of the fluffy automation for me - but pretty much everything else runs through the Elk.  The best part of that is knowing that I can fire up Elk's M1toGo or ElkRMS or eKeypad for the iPhone or the Android equivalent - and have not just my security system, but everything the Elk can control - so lighting, HVAC, garage doors, irrigation, etc - without configuring anything extra.  
 
Another point is that it might even save you money when you go to buy automation software later.  Depending on the software package you buy and how it's licensed, you may find that it costs more to have everything separate.  If you have to have a module for HVAC, a module for UPB/ZWave, a module for Security, a module for WeatherUnderground, etc - those can all count as separate pieces, and the number of devices/modules may affect which license you need - both initially and year after year for maintenance/upgrades.

 

[Dean Roddey]

Just for the record it wouldn't make much difference with CQC. The tiers do have limits on the number of drivers, but even the smaller tiers generally have enough for most folks. If you wanted to add a couple more instead of going to the next tier you can purchase a little extra driver capacity for a very small amount, and there's no difference either way in terms of ongoing costs.
 
Keep in mind that, if you use Z-Wave, UPB, Radio RA, etc... these things are generally controlling a lot of widgets, but it's still just one driver. Our smallest tier includes 10 drivers, so you could do (for instance) lighting (and all the things that lighting system controls), HVAC, weather, multi-zone audio controller, media metadata repository, music player, movie player, TV, A/V processor, and security, just with the most basic tier.
 
The next level up includes 20 drivers.

 

[tmbrown97]

I haven't studied CQC's pricing yet - I did bought a license for Elve just because it was fun to follow along with J9 when he was developing it - but he's moved on to bigger and better things so we'll see where that goes...  I just noticed with his product that while 10 devices might be plenty, if I wanted to watch weather in 3 different areas, that was 3 devices.  Not sure why we even do this, but we tend to monitor weather in Sacramento, Lake Tahoe, and Maui...  When doing devices I went ahead and duplicated UPB both in the Elk and in Elve because software does such a better job of tracking status; but HVAC and Security were combined; as is irrigation and other simple things that might otherwise be separate devices... just a point of consideration.

 

[Dean Roddey]

You have to be a little careful about terms of use with the weather stuff. I don't know what WU's policy is, but WC used to not allow for multiple simultaneous locations, which in a distributed system with multiple users really means you can only do one at a time since changing it for one would change it for everyone.
 
WU is more rate of queries oriented seemingly, so maybe they don't care as long as you stay within your limts. But, then again. TWC bought them recently, right? So the WC policies might end up enforced on WU as well.

 

[pete_c]

Here I upload and download multiple site stuff in WU. 
 
I have been a member of WU for many years now.  I am starting to wean myself off of it though because the downloading has become very slow.  I do not know why though.  I have now though installed weather stations and use those primarily for my weather. 
 
I set up the weather stations on their own servers and upload the data to the free Comcast web site and download CSV files for the Homeseer weather and mcsSPrinkler stuff.  I also now upload to CWOP and prefer that over WUN uploads as getting to my own pages on WUN has become a bit of a pain.  Uploading multiple pieces of data to the web site which I pull down wherever.
 
http://lockport.golffan.us/

 

[Dean Roddey]

It's pretty instantaneous for me.

 

[pete_c]

Its really access to my own weather stations and others in the area that literally crawl now with all the junk that is on the same page and has become much worse lately with the TWC purchase of WUN. 
 
This is mobile or regular internet access; basically today 7/8 advertisement and 1/8 real data.  I guess though its not the speed of the access so much as the junk of the access? 
 
I mean I can get to the web page fast but its literally loaded with crap.
 
Much easier for me to just pull down my own internet page with real weather data on it and no advertisements.

 

[pete_c]

Personally here trying to wean my automation stuff off of the internet as while I do have FIOS / Comcast and it works fine; my preferences would be not to have to depend on the internet for any automation/security stuff. 
 
Newest endeavor is to get weather maps from NOAA satellites direct via radio (and automating those functions) versus the internet; that is me though.

 

[dgage]

One thing about going with the Elk or similar is the expense and limited interfaces. For instance, I use RadioRa2 for lighting and if I were to use the Elk, I'd have to purchase a $300+ interface but at least they do have it and I'm assuming it would be pretty solid. A PC would have much less limitations in interfacing with different devices and interfaces, normally serial, would be cheaper to connect to the PC.

However, you could always start with the Elk for security and control. If it doesn't meet all of your needs, you could always add software based control later and still use the Elk for security and maybe continue to use the Elk for more critical controls like water leak monitoring as an example.