HAI being sold at Home Depot

Mike P

Active Member
Hi, I was at my local Home Depot yesterday and found a full section of HAI products. Panels, Keypads, Temp Sensors, UPB switches, Ect Ect. I know most of the members here are diy's but what about all of distributers that sell these products? I am in the security trade and like to see my suppliers, there employees, and there families make a living. If these products are bought from HD, What kind of support will the buyer get? Go to the help desk at the HD where the purchase was made. I think it is wrong of HAI to place there product where anybody can look at the box and say WOW and buy it. I bet most of the panels sold that way are never turned on. And I think most of the people buying them, would have no clue to even look at such a GREAT site like this for assistance. This is just my opion, I would love to here what everyone here thinks.

Mike :)
 
Hi, I was at my local Home Depot yesterday and found a full section of HAI products. Panels, Keypads, Temp Sensors, UPB switches, Ect Ect. I know most of the members here are diy's but what about all of distributers that sell these products? I am in the security trade and like to see my suppliers, there employees, and there families make a living. If these products are bought from HD, What kind of support will the buyer get? Go to the help desk at the HD where the purchase was made. I think it is wrong of HAI to place there product where anybody can look at the box and say WOW and buy it. I bet most of the panels sold that way are never turned on. And I think most of the people buying them, would have no clue to even look at such a GREAT site like this for assistance. This is just my opion, I would love to here what everyone here thinks.

Mike :)

I haven't seen them in Home Depot, yet, but as an HAI dealer i resent this greatly. I've complained in the past about this to HAI and it's pretty much fallen on deaf ears. The problem is being able to buy this equipment over the counter would be fine were it a plug and play system, but it's not. People don't realize that it's more than just the panel to make things work. They see a price on the shelf and then have me out for a quote, of course I'll be more since i have to add all the pieces and parts plus programming to make it work. I get complaints of course, then they try it themselves and call me after and find out that now it's even more to fix it than it was to install it.

At any rate doing this makes HAI look bad in some cases the installers as well. There are several other brands of equipment that i no longer carry or service just because of this problem. Who knows HAI could be next. If they want to be a professional system and not a DIY system they need to act like it. If they'd rather be a DIY system, fine they should just say that and be done with it, it makes it very hard on their dealers trying to have it both ways.
 
Makes ELK look far more interesting, I can tell you that. I had no idea that they went this route but I can assure you that, as a dealer, I feel that it's a bad deal. Very bad. I will be digging out Jay's card and calling. If that's the way they want to take it, I will drop them in a HEARTBEAT.
 
Hi, I was at my local Home Depot yesterday and found a full section of HAI products. Panels, Keypads, Temp Sensors, UPB switches, Ect Ect. I know most of the members here are diy's but what about all of distributers that sell these products? I am in the security trade and like to see my suppliers, there employees, and there families make a living. If these products are bought from HD, What kind of support will the buyer get? Go to the help desk at the HD where the purchase was made. I think it is wrong of HAI to place there product where anybody can look at the box and say WOW and buy it. I bet most of the panels sold that way are never turned on. And I think most of the people buying them, would have no clue to even look at such a GREAT site like this for assistance. This is just my opion, I would love to here what everyone here thinks.

Mike :)

I haven't seen them in Home Depot, yet, but as an HAI dealer i resent this greatly. I've complained in the past about this to HAI and it's pretty much fallen on deaf ears. The problem is being able to buy this equipment over the counter would be fine were it a plug and play system, but it's not. People don't realize that it's more than just the panel to make things work. They see a price on the shelf and then have me out for a quote, of course I'll be more since i have to add all the pieces and parts plus programming to make it work. I get complaints of course, then they try it themselves and call me after and find out that now it's even more to fix it than it was to install it.

At any rate doing this makes HAI look bad in some cases the installers as well. There are several other brands of equipment that i no longer carry or service just because of this problem. Who knows HAI could be next. If they want to be a professional system and not a DIY system they need to act like it. If they'd rather be a DIY system, fine they should just say that and be done with it, it makes it very hard on their dealers trying to have it both ways.

I couldn't agree more. It's getting harder and harder to find companies that support custom. I suspect HD won't sell much HAI stuff but just the fact that it's there does dilute the custom market and make it harder to sell our added value. I know a few Control 4 dealers that aren't too happy about similar situations.
 
Happened to the IT world way back when, and I'm sure it will eventually happen in the HA world - even if this particular instance is a flop.

I'm sure a lot of HA dealers will fall, but many will adapt and stay in business. It's tough - everyone wants HA popularity to increase, and selling items at Lowes and Home Depot is a sign towards that, but at what cost...
 
I think its great. theres such a markup on this stuff, why shouldn't the consumers get a little deal on the prices??
 
I’m a diy-selfer and I think Home Depot carrying HAI products is a good thing. For everyone involved.

I’m a diy-selfer for a couple of reasons, one I can and two since I can, I save a little money (umm most likely a lot of money). My guess is that most folks that go to Home Depot to buy an HAI system would not have called a pro installer simply for the cost reason. The value add for the pro installer comes from those who can’t DIY and have the money to let someone else do it.

As far as affecting the existing food chain (suppliers, distributors) it most likely won’t be much different than the effect of Elk selling the M1 family through retail (AO and the likes).

And most important, have we forgotten this is CocoonTech! The very thing that makes Elk the diy-selfers choice is this forum (and yes, Spanky’s excellent support). HAI, that was your queue to get onboard if you have not done so already. As far as plug-and-play goes I think the Omni and Elk are very similar so it’s a wash there. HAI has been around for a good while so my guess would be that they have considered their support responsibilities. And when all else fails there are HAI users active in this forum (or will be).

And if all else fails; the pro installers get some additional business bailing out the DIY project that went south.

Just mho.
 
Happened to the IT world way back when, and I'm sure it will eventually happen in the HA world - even if this particular instance is a flop.

I'm sure a lot of HA dealers will fall, but many will adapt and stay in business. It's tough - everyone wants HA popularity to increase, and selling items at Lowes and Home Depot is a sign towards that, but at what cost...

... this is correct.

Installers hate to see this because they lose business... yes, a little but not much. People that buy the HAI (or any other brand) at a DIY store would not have hired you (Installers) anyway. And if the consumer does fail with the HAI install they will call an installer or buy something else easier to use.

Business people (in this case Installers) are protectionist, for good reason, but most over-reach to these types of things without really thinking through, or understanding, the impact/ramifications... Nothing personal but HAI likely has much more shrewd business people and know the target market much better then the Installers. I work with large companies for a living and they don't do these strategy changes without major understanding far beyond their VARs.

So what I'm saying... Installers have nothing to worry about... unless your business is based on DIYs :)
 
I think its great. theres such a markup on this stuff, why shouldn't the consumers get a little deal on the prices??

I do this as a hobby and dont have the cash flow for tons of devices at high costs.. the problem to me is that still buying new from home depot is not really any cheaper. i posted on another site about home depot carrying stuff like this and was told that is due to them being able to drop ship. So yeah it is nice but still... not cheap..
I have been buying my stuff used or ebay for best prices...
 
The system I have in our new has is a full up security (fire, windows, doors, motion, glass break), UPB lighting, 4 zone audio, automated thermostat, homevision automation, cat5/cable to every room, dual networks, temp sensing in every room blah blah blah. I never would have even had someone come out and bid it because I never would want to pay for it. It is a hobby for me and anything that keeps the price down is good. I bought lots of my stuff here on CT and through ebay, automated outlet and others. My foray into this field did not take a cent out of the pro installer market...
 
I think its great. theres such a markup on this stuff, why shouldn't the consumers get a little deal on the prices??
You clearly don't know what you're talking about. If you had any idea how piss poor the margin is on HAI, you'd be embarrassed by your comment. The analogy I use with HAI is eating rabbit. If stranded on an island, with nothing to eat but rabbit but, you could eat all the rabbit you wanted, you would still starve to death. Selling HAI is the same. The only real markup is at the distributor level and I know this because I have a copy of the 5 tier pricing list from HAI. You, as a consumer, misinformed as you are, will not see the benefit in price that you think because HD will still keep the margin that's available. Despite the miniscule list of SKU's at HD's website when searching "automation", the price differential is shown to be minimal. The issue I have is in a watering down of the market when Joe Homeowner buys a complete package, has no idea of the capabilities other than what some pimply faced, know nothing orange smock "sells" him on, goes home and builds a POS that hinders HA perception when his ridiculous install is shown off to friends and family. I have no beef with legitamate, passionate retailers (a la AO and Worthington) that sell the line. I love the DIY aspect of HAI/ELK installs. Hell, I've learned much from this very forum. But, I do have a beef when the line is watered down by water heads...and Frumple, if you really believe that there's that much of a markup on HAI, you should go work at Home Depot with the other....well, if you don't have anything nice to say...
 
If I were a pro I would not worry about it either. A diy'er is a diy'er and is going to buy and do it on their own regardless whether it is HD, AO, SH, etc. I think it actually hurts places like AO more than it does pro integrators. But HAI really needs to change their business model to do this. There are many threads here about why Elk is a better choice for diy because of availability, tools and support. HAI will have to really change their support model to be successful in HD.

The only benefit of this to a diy'er is if in a pinch you need a part like on a weekend, you can run in to your local store and buy it (assuming they will put the product in all stores). But in general I would always rather buy HAI or whatever from a supporting shop like AO. Comparing support you will get from HD to AO is apples to oranges, and I'm sure AO will match HD prices, but...

I think its great. theres such a markup on this stuff, why shouldn't the consumers get a little deal on the prices??
I agree 100% with TeleFragger on this point. HD is almost never cheaper, they are typicall full retail. Heck, I would not be surprised if AO's regular price is better than HD's anyway, plus you get all the support. So like I said, the only advantage I see is running into a store in a pinch.
 
I think a lot of you are missing the point and I don't think this should turn into a DIY vs Installer debate however...

Custom integrators know that DIYers are not our market an believe me we don't want you to be. I have always been advised to sell "solutions" and not products and so this is my approach. However, solutions ultimately contain products. When we spend hours customizing a solution for a client and then he goes to Home Depot and sees what he percieves as the same thing sitting on the shelf our solution suddenly seems not so custom. This business is almost 100% word of mouth and when a client feels ripped off it's bad for business. It's not about the price HD will sell for, I'm sure it will be MSRP but just the availability cheapens the product. For example, think of a line of clothing that was considered cool or hip and think of what happened to it after it was available at Wal-Mart. Maybe not the best analogy but the best I can come up with at this time of night.

When a company claims to support dealers and then makes a move like this, it forces one to re-evaluate your product line-up. I don't sell HAI so am not directly threatened by this specific issue however it is part of a larger trend.

As far as finding work fixing aborted installations, I wouldn't touch it with a 10' pole.

I still think it's likely to be a giant failure anyway but I have been wrong before. Go to a Lowes store and see how much dust is on the On-Q products or the Z-wave stuff. I know, in my area at least, this stuff does not move at all. I always see tons of product sitting on the shelf that has been repackaged after it was returned.

Just my.02
 
...when Joe Homeowner buys a complete package, has no idea of the capabilities other than what some pimply faced, know nothing orange smock "sells" him on, goes home and builds a POS that hinders HA perception when his ridiculous install is shown off to friends and family...

That's exactly why I think this was a horrid deciion on HAI's part. With what little I know about HA, given the entirety of my data is 1 direct experience (mine), everything else being forum-related, this ain't easy stuff. Well, not so bad for those of us willing to throw hours and hours at it, but HD isn't for those folks; it's for the quasi-DIY'ers who are just weekend warriors looking to do something quick.

When they can't get their $500-$1000 in HAI parts to work, or it takes them hours to do something simple, folks aren't going to think "oh, i screwed this up. I"ll call in a $80-$100/hour person to fix it all". They're going to say "yeah, I tried that HAI stuff. Man that stuff is unstable - i had lights turning on randomly for weeks until the wife made me rip it all out."

Or worse - it works, but for their big investment, they'll only have an alternative manual control mechanism (ie, be able to press a button on a screen and turn a light on in a different room cuz their kids left it on). Their buddies who know nothing about this stuff say "yeah, me, I just bought the $10 lightswitches, and beat my kids until they remembered to turn off the light". Nothing about automation, ie motion-based on/off, or auto-off all the correct lights when you arm the system, wait 10 mins until you leave, then turn all the rest off, etc.

Never underestimate 2 things:
1) John Q. Public's (ie, those with a set it & forget it mentality, as oppoosed to the hobbyist) stupidity in installing anything more complex than a toaster. Ever see the length of a list of instructions on a wifi router? My god, who the hell is attempting to install these things that the mfr needs to put in a BIG BOLD WARNING that you need to plug the router in before attempting to connect to it.
2) John Q. PUblic's ability to blame his stupidity on the product at hand, rather than his lack of desire to learn how to do something correctly.
 
Just think about all the returned product that will be available when people can't get it to work or decide paying a pro is too much. After this flops the equipment will hit the bargain tables. I'm going to watch for this.
 
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