HAI OPII 4-Wire Smokes and Z1-4

[broconne]

I have read the manual here: OPII Install Manual

And I am still a little unclear of what to do. I am installing DSC FSA-410BT 4-wire smokes. I am installing my first one on Zone 2. And I am unclear on how to wire it.

(1) I am home running all of my smoke detectors. Do I need the EOL Power Supervision Relay if there is only a single smoke on the zone?
(2) The diagram shows running yellow back to switched + (seems odd). Do I run that to Common or NO on the smoke, does it matter?
(3) The diagram shows the EOL sensor in series... But the switch is NO and the HAI docs say that NO items have the resistors in parallel?

 

[pete_c]

I used the attached drawing from the HAI web site to wire up my smokes and CO detectors.

 

[broconne]

I used the attached drawing from the HAI web site to wire up my smokes and CO detectors.

Pete -
Thanks.. What zones did you use? Did you wire your stuff in series like the picture or was each a home run?

 

[pete_c]

HAI OPII specifications state:

Zone 1-4 support 2 wire smoke detectors

I had already used zones 1-4 so went to the expansion board using the last group of zones that I had available. Bought a second expansion board as I will be needing but haven't installed it yet.

I went with separate zones (EOLs) and one polarity reversal module for smokes and one for CO detectors.

I was initially confused until I saw the drawing that was posted.

Here's some more with specifics.

Smokes Z 5 plus

 

[Del91574]

1. Yes, otherwise you could have a circuit with no power or supervision. Not up to code.
2. I don't know the specific diagram offhand.
3. Using a EOL relay, the resistor is technically in series with (usually) the common leg of the relay. No power, the resistor is removed from the circuit.

Of note, reading the attached post referring to using a second reversing relay, I'm not aware of any CO on the market that allows a tandem ring function, and if you're tied into the fire alarm for the audible portion, that is really not allowed because it is not a separate and distinct signal (temporal 4- vs temporal 3) and many AHJ's will not allow such for obvious reasons. Not to harp, but life safety and devices are not something to "rig" up, no matter how well intentioned.

 

[broconne]

HAI OPII specifications state:



I had already used zones 1-4 so went to the expansion board using the last group of zones that I had available. Bought a second expansion board as I will be needing but haven't installed it yet.

I went with separate zones (EOLs) and one polarity reversal module for smokes and one for CO detectors.

I was initially confused until I saw the drawing that was posted.

Here's some more with specifics.

Smokes Z 5 plus

HAI OPII supports 2 and 4 wire smokes on Z1-Z4, the diagram is on page 8 of the manual I linked.

 

[broconne]

1. Yes, otherwise you could have a circuit with no power or supervision. Not up to code.
2. I don't know the specific diagram offhand.
3. Using a EOL relay, the resistor is technically in series with (usually) the common leg of the relay. No power, the resistor is removed from the circuit.

Of note, reading the attached post referring to using a second reversing relay, I'm not aware of any CO on the market that allows a tandem ring function, and if you're tied into the fire alarm for the audible portion, that is really not allowed because it is not a separate and distinct signal (temporal 4- vs temporal 3) and many AHJ's will not allow such for obvious reasons. Not to harp, but life safety and devices are not something to "rig" up, no matter how well intentioned.

(1) Ok, so the EOL realy is required even if using just one smoke per zone. Good to know. Looking at it now, I really should have purchased 2 wire smokes - much easier to run. I guess I will need the same relays for my CO detectors regardless of zone?
(2) Sorry, I meant to specify the diagram is on page 8 of the manual I posted.
(3) So the EOL relay and the resistor, I get coverage with the resistor across all 4 wires? Power and signal?

 

[pete_c]

The logic that made sense to me was from the drawing. My smokes and CO are separate.

Following the "rules" I used one EOL per zone whether it was a CO or Smoke and purchased a pair of reversing modules; one for smokes and CO's.

Not sure if the manual verbiage is incorrect or correct; but the same issue of wiring 4 wire smokes has come up numerous times on the forum.

I used double stick tape for my reversing modules in the can; they have not come unstuck in over a year now; not sure though if this was the proper methodology to mount the reversing modules.

So DELInstallations what is the proper way to configure the CO detectors on the HAI OPII panel?

I have my CO detectors configured autonomously as "gas" type in the configuration versus "fire" type for the smoke detectors; so I am thinking it is a distinct signal versus the "fire" type eh?

 

[Del91574]

I don't know if you're using the CO's to trigger the fire alarm or not, as I said, I don't know of any manufacturer's units that provide a tandem ring, so I'm assuming you are tripping the fire alarm. If you're using another method, then let me know. On the HAI, I would choose the AUX type and modify the attributes of what happens via additional programming. GAS is really for another event and the report codes that follow it to a CS usually are misleading.

Zone type is techinically irrelevant, because that is how the system itself responds and reports the event to the CS. Local notification is what is the important thing. I can't get my OPII manual at the moment, but the notification needs to be a temporal 4 pattern, not a temporal 3, which is fire alarm only, that is hard set in the code books. If your AHJ allows the variance, more power to you, but without looking at a keypad, you won't know which alarm it is, and that is the issue the code has with it.

I don't know what you are using for annunciation, but if you're using the smokes, then the only option would be to program an event to provide the temporal 4 pulse via the smokes for signal differentation.

 

[pete_c]

Thank-you for the recommendations DELInstallations relating to the configuration of the CO detectors.

I made many assumptions based only the documentation provided. I would assume that HAI Gas option could be utilized for both combustible gas and carbon monoxide gas detection and would be tripping the fire alarm.

So your recommendation is to create a new device and customize it for CO?

 

[fcwilt]

So your recommendation is to create a new device and customize it for CO?

The government means well but in practice sometimes things don't go as planned.

You have to ask yourself at 3 in the morning when the alarm goes off are you going to be alert and calm enough to recognize and remember temporal 3 versus 4, etc.

I not young any more and I can tell you from experience that at 3 in the morning the thought that goes through my half-asleep head is "What the hell is that noise?".

That's why my system speaks (loudly) "Fire Fire Fire", "Gas Gas Gas" or "Intruder Intruder Intruder" on the inside. Outside I stick with the "proper" sounds and lights - which mean nothing to most folks - but they are annoying.

Not to code for sure but it works for me. Of course if I ever have to move it will be easy enough to restore the system to meet code.

 

[pete_c]

Thanks Frederick. I do similiar with the TTS from HS while polling the HAI Panel. Motion and alarm TTS, status etc. A middle of the morning TTS does get our attention. Not sure though if I had two sets of voices talking (HAI voice panel) if it would be any better - but I have wanted to play with the voice card. In FL I have zoned audio but its not connected to anything relating to the HAI OPII at this time...

 

[fcwilt]

TTS from HS

HS?

In FL I have zoned audio

FL?

 

[pete_c]

HS is Homeseer. Homeseer is the software side of the home automation in the home in the Midwest.

FL is Florida. I wired the house for audio. Its about 8-10 zones.

 

[Del91574]

I tend to use voice annunciation on my systems, so a temp-3 vs. temp-4 pattern by itself isn't a huge deal, however it is for a fire alarm, since a lot of peripherals are designed to only work with a temp-3 pulse.

I would differentiate the signals, especially in a life safety install/application, otherwise it's inviting confusion.